TheSamba.com :: View topic - buying a truck, quesion with the vin number -- help

Tue Sep 11, 2007 11:37 pm

Ok I am getting ready (on thursday) to fly into LA to hopfully pick up a syncro truck. I asked what the VIN number was to inform my inshurance company. After getting it I looked at the vanagon.com and found they translate what the numbers are supose to mean. When I do this to the vin number suplied I get the following

W - Germany
V - Volkswagen
2 - MPV (Multi-Purpose Vehicle)_______(1 is supose to be for a truck)
Y - 1980-91 Bus (Vanagon)__________(should be a V for a 1980-91 Double-Cab Pickup)
B - 4-Cylinder Gasoline (Water-Cooled)
0 - Passive (seat belts)
25 - Vanagon (vans) ________________(24 is supose to be for a Transporter (Pickups))
8 - (Manufacturer's Internal Code)
L - 1990
H - Hannover ______________________(G - Graz (Austria. normally for Syncro models) )
52697 - production number

Should I be concerned with this, should I do anything to insure everything is on the up and up?
Please advise if at all possable as I have already bought my ticket for 6 am thursday...
Shawn

Wed Sep 12, 2007 5:53 am

I would be If I was paying top-dollar for a Doka and it's got a Vans vin number.
People seem to get very unethical when selling cars.
You may have problems if you wreck it, or try to sell it in the future.
Run a carfax on the vin and see what it say's, they don't tell alot but it may help.
I think you know the answer to this one, if you ignor it, it may bite you in the butt.

Wed Sep 12, 2007 6:01 am

I might also question the seller, this doesn't happen accidently.

Wed Sep 12, 2007 7:17 am

I'd cancel my flight. Ask your insurance company, they have the break down of every vehicle just like you posted. Last thing you need is a stolen truck that gets reposessed.

Wed Sep 12, 2007 9:20 am

Since my ticket is non refundable (not to big of deal I can just cut my losses) and I do decided to head down there, is there somewhere I can take the truck in LA to make sure everything is OK or should I not even bother and just move on to the next one?

Thanks in advance for your advice
Shawn

....Does California Highway Patrol offer vehicle inspections? If so, anyone ever done this and what would I need to do to?

Wed Sep 12, 2007 9:44 am

it is possible they took the easy way out when it came to registering the doka

Wed Sep 12, 2007 9:55 am

gt8 wrote: it is possible they took the easy way out when it came to registering the doka

GT8 what do you mean easy way out? is there a lagitimate "easy" way of registering one? It does have a Virgina Title, and not a California title.
Shawn
Tacoma, WA

Wed Sep 12, 2007 9:56 am

Here is another possibility....

When I imported my 84 U.S. Spec Vanagon Westy to the states, the TUV paperwork (Germany's version of our Department of motor vehicles - DMV) had "X"ed out some of the VIN numbers on their paperwork. The VIN on the Vanagon was correct, representing a U.S. Westy.

The DMV person was confused, and stated the German paperwork did not match the vehicle. She wrote down the VIN from the vehicle, and issued a U.S. title from that.

It is possible that the vehicle you are thinking of buying went through something simular, but a number (or 2) did not get transfered onto the U.S. title properly.

If the current seller cannot verify or assist in this matter, I would check it out on my own before purchasing.

Wed Sep 12, 2007 12:25 pm

Well I called washington state patrol, and california state patrol both agencies ran the vin number in there systems. I also bought a car-fax, when I reviewed the car fax and explained to the officers my concern about it being reported as a 2wd van and not a 4wd truck they each said just verify the vin numbers match that of the tile. Niether of them seemed concerned at all about it being a truck...So with that said, I plan on still flying down tomorrow, what I am asking of this group now is were outside of the dash plaque can I find the VIN number? Also is there anything else I should do?
And finally can anyone else think of something more to do, to protect my interests?

here is the car fax on it

07/27/1990 NICB Vehicle manufactured
and shipped to original dealer

08/29/1990 178 Pennsylvania
Motor Vehicle Dept.
Portage, PA Title or registration issued
First owner reported

08/23/1997 47,476 Pennsylvania
Motor Vehicle Dept.
Pittsburgh, PA Title or registration issued

03/18/1998 51,982 Service Facility Vehicle serviced
Engine serviced

01/19/2000 77,032 Clarke Mega Mall
Hudson, OH
330-342-1099
www.clarkemegamall.com Vehicle serviced
Battery replaced
Electrical system serviced

07/30/2000 83,888 California
Motor Vehicle Dept.
Ventura, CA Odometer reading reported for title
or registration

07/31/2000 California
Inspection Station
Ventura, CA Failed emissions inspection

08/01/2000 California
Motor Vehicle Dept.
Ventura, CA Title issued or updated

08/01/2000 83,925 California
Inspection Station
Ventura, CA Passed emissions inspection

04/01/2002 California
Motor Vehicle Dept.
Oxnard, CA Title issued or updated
New owner reported

04/18/2002 103,243 Auto Auction Sold at auction
in Pacific Southwest Region
Listed as
a dealer vehicle

05/31/2002 Arizona
Motor Vehicle Dept.
Mesa, AZ
Title #0E03002151023 Title or registration issued
New owner reported

06/14/2002 Arizona
Inspection Station Passed emissions inspection

07/22/2002 West Virginia
Motor Vehicle Dept.
Paden City, WV
Title #BA32753 Title issued or updated
Exempt from odometer reporting

Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:14 pm

Well, of course there is something wrong with it. If it says it is a 2wd multipurpose vehicle and in fact it is a 4wd truck. Likely someone imported the truck from Canada or possibly brought it in as parts, then put the Vanagon title with it. Completely sidestepping the whole EPA and DOT compliance stuff for which you would pay a registered importer perhaps $3k to $6k.
There are secret numbers in I think 3 places: 1 of which is the rear vertical side of the front right side outrigger. (the part you put the jack into.)
The chances of getting caught are pretty low, but one runs the risk of US Customs seizing the vehicle and fines somewhere in the $50,000 range, plus jail time. Federal prisons are pretty nice, though.
Plus there could be state charges as well for having a false registration number.
Oh, your insurance company might not like the fraud, either.
No big deal though, if you get the car for $3000 or less.
Al

Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:51 pm

yeah the easy way out is what 69 is saying...
just swap the vin plates... easy as cake

Wed Sep 12, 2007 3:32 pm

tell the seller you want to get the VIN verified at the DMV. finding a cop to do it can be a nightmare. i had to ask 7 different police, sheriffs, and state patrol men once when trying to correct a incorrectly titled motorcycle. either go to the DMV or call the local CHP office and see if they offer it as a service. 8/10 DMV people are morons, but there is a chance you'll get someone with half a brain or more.

you've seen picks of the truck right? anything look out of place? sure it's a doka and not some home brewed conversion? i just recently saw a homemade vanagon truck for sale somewhere in CA, by a used car lot no less. have you confronted the seller with your concern? maybe he gave you the wrong vin from another title he had on accident?

Wed Sep 12, 2007 4:03 pm

threres a permanant sticker on the door pillar at least on my vanagon, VW used these in the 70's as well on beetles has the vin etc.. on it, if thats been removed or does not match well theres a red flag.

Those vehicles were never offered in the states too so that carfax tells you right there that somethings fishy.

Thu Sep 13, 2007 3:43 am

Beat head against the door... repeat... repeat... Repeat... :oops: :cry: :x
OK I am cutting my losses on this.
Thanks everyone
Shawn

Thu Sep 13, 2007 4:51 am

So, the chances are that it is not an "original". What would be wrong in buying a "clone" 4 wheel drive? If it were done safely, using VW correct parts, and the seller was not jacking the price in an attempt to pass it as an original 4 wheel drive (fraud), and you are not buying it because you believe it to be a "collectible and rare" vehicle, then no harm. It has a clear title, and I doubt any DMV is going to prevent you from re-titling it into your name.

Some restorers have been doing this with high performance cars for some time. They purchase the stripped down version, then add the goodies. Again, as long as they don't attempt to sell it as the "real deal" (spelled fraud), then no harm.

You have already passed, so this is no longer your problem.

Thu Sep 13, 2007 2:20 pm

yeah at least figure out what the deal is before giving up on it. There are all kinds of strange vin's out there, especially in the vw world, I agree that it's a little weird, but I'd certainly check it out if you've already got that much effort into it.

Thu Sep 13, 2007 8:30 pm

As an owner of a 16" Syncro DoKa I would definitely find some more answers before bailing on this. First I would check to make sure that the DoKa is not actually listed under "MPV" and only the single cab as Pick up. Have someone (like the owner) clear off the vin on the frame outrigger on the passenger side and send you a picture of it. Get one picture up close and one picture showing the general area. If this number matches the vin on the dash and title and there doesn't look like any monkeying around has been done. Look for signs that someone welded in the vin underneath. Someone might be able to hide it but it would be hard if you know what you are looking for.

There are alot of weird things with VW vin numbers and especially if you get into something as rare as Syncro double cabs. Do a little more research before you turn away. Any syncro Double cab is going to take some homework to authenticate it but it will be worth the effort. Let me know if you get yours we have alot of Double Cabs up here in the NW.

Craig

Thu Sep 13, 2007 10:49 pm

spaeth wrote: Have someone (like the owner) clear off the vin on the frame outrigger on the passenger side and send you a picture of it. Get one picture up close and one picture showing the general area. If this number matches the vin on the dash and title and there doesn't look like any monkeying around has been done. Look for signs that someone welded in the vin underneath. Someone might be able to hide it but it would be hard if you know what you are looking for.
Craig
You are 100% correct, but the cances are that someone just jumped the title to avoid the paying the RI $3-$6,000.
A Syncro would be built in Graz, not Hannover, right?
The chances of actually getting caught are pretty remote. Do NOT ever let your wife know about the situation if you ever think she might become and ex-wife. (Hell hath no fury? She might call customs and drop a dime on you!)
If the car is pretty decent and the seller wil go for it, check ithe a registered Importer to see what it takes to put it right. Jeff Schwaia is one with Vanagon experience. Autostadt West. California, someplace.
I've imported cars before, but they had the right stickers!
Al

Thu Sep 13, 2007 11:02 pm

Why the big mystery ? Is it some kind of mutant and does it match the stampings in the hidden spot. Of course not on both accounts.
Registering a non Compliant truck is a real hassle (lotsa 4's) . If the title is clean and will pass smog,has it been converted to digifant and had a Cat added,or is it still using a Carb ?
If you do not understand the saying" Bob's your uncle" then you better pass on this truck.
Very few trucks are EPA and DOT compliant. The biggest issue really is,will it pass a Smog Inspection ?

Vwcrewman

Fri Sep 14, 2007 1:11 am

everyone is going to deep on this
we all agree is a way to get thru customs,right and wrong.
right on not paying importer fees BUT all cars,vans,motorcycles,trucks have to do 2 things
1 pass federal epa standards,which alot of them would not pass
2 pass a DOT requirements,which still they would not pass

so now a few importers found a loop hole and we if we are not careful,we all will loose out.