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Fri Sep 28, 2007 9:26 pm

ok here is my opinion on this. mpribanic got me turned on to 356s when i met him and later he told me i should sign up for the digest so i can be learning about the cars before i finally bought one. well the day of me owning one is still pretty far off.
well i tried and tried to get into the 356 digest but it is so hard to follow and read.

unless you know what has been said already there is no way to keep up.

unlike it is here i can search back to 2002 to find threads and read up on them. im sure a lot of good info is out there from that digest but i dont want everything since day one sent to me.
another thing is trying to reply to the digest. to complicated. who d i have to email and worst off what if i didnt say everything i wanted to now way to edit.

and no pictures.

i vote for a forums. if not here than at least somewhere.

Sat Sep 29, 2007 7:18 am

There is no reason it has to be an either/or (forum or list). There are tools out there that integrate the two formats in such a way that a list can co-exist with a forum. Messages sent to an email list are automatically reflected on the forum and vice versa. Completely transparent to the user.

In fact, I believe this is what those who favor a forum REALLY want/need! There is a wealth of information and a very active community on 356Talk, and you want to build on top of that. To create a separate structure that won't include the contributions of the email list is no better than just using Pelican or Rennlist. Why start from scratch when you don't have to?

Sat Sep 29, 2007 7:29 am

jjjjack wrote: There is no reason it has to be an either/or (forum or list). There are tools out there that integrate the two formats in such a way that a list can co-exist with a forum. Messages sent to an email list are automatically reflected on the forum and vice versa. Completely transparent to the user.

In fact, I believe this is what those who favor a forum REALLY want/need! There is a wealth of information and a very active community on 356Talk, and you want to build on top of that. To create a separate structure that won't include the contributions of the email list is no better than just using Pelican or Rennlist. Why start from scratch when you don't have to?

JJJJACK,
Can you give us an example of what this will look like? A web forum/email site? I do not want to seperate those that prefer a text based format. A forum like the 912 billboard is harder to follow than 356 talk.

I would like to navigate the type of solution you mention above. Will someone post a link to a site that utilizes both?

Thank you in advance,

Mark

Sat Sep 29, 2007 10:41 am

Sure, here's a site that uses a forum that is sync'd with its email list.

Forum:
http://www.cycling74.com/forums/index.php

List:
http://www.cycling74.com/special/mailing_lists

If one subscribes to their email list, every post to the list shows up as a message or thread on the forum (and vice versa).

I was on this list before the advent of the forum. As a community, they went through the same sort of difficulty with people who didn't want to loose what they had created with the email list. A year or so ago, they introduced the forum, and in my opinion it has given them the best of both worlds.

I'm sure there are other examples of forum software that enable this, but this is one I have experienced directly.

HTH

Sat Sep 29, 2007 1:25 pm

jjjjack wrote: Sure, here's a site that uses a forum that is sync'd with its email list.

Forum:
http://www.cycling74.com/forums/index.php

List:
http://www.cycling74.com/special/mailing_lists

If one subscribes to their email list, every post to the list shows up as a message or thread on the forum (and vice versa).

I was on this list before the advent of the forum. As a community, they went through the same sort of difficulty with people who didn't want to loose what they had created with the email list. A year or so ago, they introduced the forum, and in my opinion it has given them the best of both worlds.

I'm sure there are other examples of forum software that enable this, but this is one I have experienced directly.

HTH

We need the nerd who set that up to come work for The Registry for a couple of days. That would make everyone happy.

It does appear much harder to manage than a simple phpbb forum which is a downside seeing as how it would most likely be a car guy running the thing.

Sat Sep 29, 2007 3:27 pm

LHG wrote:
We need the nerd who set that up to come work for The Registry for a couple of days. That would make everyone happy.

It does appear much harder to manage than a simple phpbb forum which is a downside seeing as how it would most likely be a car guy running the thing.

Did you look at the website of the software they are using (linked at the bottom of their forum)? It's pretty much the same kind of setup as phpbb in that it's php + mysql. It has an administration control panel, just like phpbb, so "the car guy/admin" and take care of it. Also, according to this:

http://fudforum.org/services/

they'll do a one time install for only $150...not too bad!

Sat Sep 29, 2007 4:27 pm

jjjjack wrote: they'll do a one time install for only $150...not too bad!

So for the cost of one couple to attend a Porsche event they would set up a forum.... interesting.

Sat Sep 29, 2007 5:25 pm

LHG wrote:
So for the cost of one couple to attend a Porsche event they would set up a forum.... interesting.

Sounds like they're pretty confident it's an easy/quick setup!

Sat Sep 29, 2007 8:51 pm

jjjjack wrote: Sure, here's a site that uses a forum that is sync'd with its email list.

Forum:
http://www.cycling74.com/forums/index.php

List:
http://www.cycling74.com/special/mailing_lists

If one subscribes to their email list, every post to the list shows up as a message or thread on the forum (and vice versa).

I was on this list before the advent of the forum. As a community, they went through the same sort of difficulty with people who didn't want to loose what they had created with the email list. A year or so ago, they introduced the forum, and in my opinion it has given them the best of both worlds.

I'm sure there are other examples of forum software that enable this, but this is one I have experienced directly.

HTH

JJJJACK,
Visually, it looks like it might work. The topics were way aver my head though. Two questions:

1) I didn't see a Gallery to post pictures and thus a link to a thread. Is there an option to have a gallery?

2) Is one able to create an avatar? [EDIT] It looks like you can set up avatars. I answered my own question.

Thanks,

Mark

Sat Sep 29, 2007 9:29 pm

mpribanic wrote:

JJJJACK,
Visually, it looks like it might work. The topics were way aver my head though. Two questions:

1) I didn't see a Gallery to post pictures and thus a link to a thread. Is there an option to have a gallery?

2) Is one able to create an avatar? [EDIT] It looks like you can set up avatars. I answered my own question.

Thanks,

Mark

Hey Mark :-)
To be clear, I've installed a few bbs previously, but never this one. My only experience with this one is as a member of the Max list when they decided to use FUDforum to integrate a forum with their email list. I personally prefer, and still use, the email list for my Max/MSP info.

I did a quick search of the FUDforum Support Forums for the term "gallery" and it looks like they provide a way to tie the forum to various photo gallery tools (like http://gallery.menalto.com, coppermine, etc). I think most of the forum toolkits work this way.

Otherwise, it looks like users can post pictures, do avatars, just like phpbb, vbulletin and others.

HTH

Sat Sep 29, 2007 11:02 pm

You can pretty much link any Forum to any Gallery, although some are easier than others.

From a Samba perspective, the Gallery on this site was a free add-on to phpBB but I fixed a few things.

From a programmers perspective, there are still tons of email lists related to programming but I use on-line Forums whenever possible. They are definitely easier to search via Google or search screens on individual Forums.

Sun Sep 30, 2007 9:18 am

Hello all,

I am interested in moving to a Forum like this one for the 356 Registry.

I have discussed this move with our local 356 club, as I am the Technical Chair for TYP356ne.

Once of my tasks per our board of directors has been to inquire of other Forums how difficult it is to monitor their lists. Below, I have copied in their responses.

John is the moderator from Rennlist:

Hi Tom,
>
> When you set up your forums - you'll probably end up recoding the core
> code. For example - only allowing pictures or links after a certain
> number of posts. Also - and I have no idea what you are considering for
> "forum software" so there are other
> things you need to consider to dis-allow "webbots" from signing up - and
> SPAMMING. It does take some time to code those in. As well - I think
> you'll find many of the users of the Forums are "self policing" - so I'd
> suggest having software that let's fols "Report a Post" - and then you or
> a moderator can "look at it and make a decision. I'd also STRONGLY
> suggest you have very "tight" forum rules.
>
> This is a long subject. :)
>
> Best to you!
>
> John
>
>
> Tom Gentz wrote:
>> Thank you John for your response.
>>
>> To clarify my question, using your response, in your second paragraph,
>> you mention keeping stuff off the Forums. How do you set up the forums,
>> or how do you monitor the forums once an off subject, flame or
>> pornographic post finds its way onto the Forum.
>>
>> How much of an issue is the monitoring or the effort to keep the Forum on
>> task.
>>
>> Thanks again, Tom
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rennlist Administrator"
>> <admin@rennlist.com>
>> To: xxx
>> Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 10:35 PM
>> Subject: Re: List moderation effort
>>
>>
>>> Hi Tom,
>>>
>>> To be honest - I have no idea what, exactly - you are asking? As you
>>> know - I have 82,000 folks on the Rennlist e-mail lists and about
>>> another 250,000 folks a day who hit the Rennlist Web forums - with over
>>> 56,000 folks registered there (and no - there is NOT a lot of
>>> crossover - which is why I run BOTH)? If you are asking which is more
>>> difficult to "moderate" - umm - they are probably equal.
>>>
>>> As for keeping stuff (pornographic and non-Porsche items) off the
>>> Forums - it really depends on how you set up the forums and your core
>>> code to allow "posts" and "registration" - and how you moderate/review
>>> BOTH processes.
>>>
>>> John
>>> Rennlist.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Tom wrote:
>>>>
>>>> To Whom It May Concern:
>>>> I am the Technical Chair for the TYP356ne club in New England. Our
>>>> board of directors is looking into a recommendation to move away from
>>>> their email list to a forum like yours.
>>>> I am trying to get the 356 Registry to move away from the email
>>>> process to a system like your forums. I am a regular reader of the 911
>>>> BBS.
>>>> The 356 Registry email moderators feel that an open forum like yours
>>>> takes too much time to keep purient, pornographic and non-Porsche items
>>>> off.
>>>> So, my question is "does the list moderators spend a lot of time
>>>> deleting the inappropriate postings?
>>>> Thanks in advance,
>>>> Tom Gentz
>>>> Tech Chair
>>>> TYP356ne
>>>
>>>

This response is from Wayne Dempsey at Pelican:

Hi Wayne,

Thank you for your input I appreciate all that you do for the hobby.

Tom
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne at Pelican Parts" <wayne@pelicanparts.com>
To: "xxx @ Pelican Parts Technical BBS"
Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 9:04 PM
Subject: RE: Moderator effort

Some time, but not a lot. I would imagine that working with an email
list would be more difficult. Most of the problems are caused by
members - not random people posting on the board. I also have a filter
that disallows a lot of spam posts...

-Wayne

-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Gentz
Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 5:20 PM
To: Wayne at Pelican Parts
Subject: Moderator effort

This is a message from xxx at Pelican Parts Technical BBS (
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/index.php ). The Pelican Parts Technical
BBS owners cannot accept any responsibility for the contents of the
email.

To email xxx, you can use this online form:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/sendmessage.php?do=mailmember&u=26559

This is the message:

Hi Wayne,

I am the Technical Chair for the TYP356ne club in New England. Our board
of directors is looking into a recommendation to move away from their
email list to a forum like yours.

I am trying to get the 356 Registry to move away from the email process
to a system like your forums. I am a regular reader of the 911 BBS.

The 356 Registry email moderators feel that an open forum like yours
takes too much time to keep purient, pornographic and non-Porsche items
off.

So, my question is "does the list moderators spend a lot of time
deleting the inappropriate postings?

Thanks in advance,

Tom Gentz
Tech Chair
TYP356ne

Sun Sep 30, 2007 2:30 pm

Quote: For example - only allowing pictures or links after a certain number of posts.
I would recommend against this unless you get overrun with spam. I don't like dissuading new users from having full functionality.

Quote: Also - and I have no idea what you are considering for "forum software" so there are other things you need to consider to dis-allow "webbots" from signing up - and SPAMMING.
Every Forum I have seen has some very simple things to activate that will remove 99%+ of spam:
1. Don't let guests posts - only registered members.
2. Force all new registrations to have a valid, active email.

Quote: As well - I think you'll find many of the users of the Forums are "self policing" - so I'd suggest having software that let's fols "Report a Post" - and then you or a moderator can "look at it and make a decision.
I agree - the report feature is important.

Quote: I'd also STRONGLY suggest you have very "tight" forum rules.
I agree with this for a 356 Forum, it should be fairly strict.

None of the above requires coding but may require some manual modification of the source files to add MODs (modifications, add-on extras). Some Forums have a system to add these on automatically for you.

Mon Oct 01, 2007 8:21 am

Doesnt matter what the 356 Registry does, I will always choose the Samba Forums for info first....especially since the Samba Porsche forums have grown rather fast recently. Just been waiting for more guys to come over, and that has been happening steadily. At the most, I join the 356talk for a day or two to ask questions, then jump out.

Also, a lot VW guys who dont own 356's can have good info and ideas to help out porsche owners, and they are right next door.

Similar situation at 356 shows....a bunch of stubborn older guys stuck in their ways. Thats why I hardly attend porsche events anymore, they have the attitude like a young guy my age should'nt own a 356....at least that is the feeling I get from them. I feel more welcome with the VW crowd. I hope the next younger generation of 356 owners (like myself), will be a little more open minded.

Mon Oct 01, 2007 4:18 pm

This was my post on the Chat List before I was resoundingly put down and told to drop it.

I'm new here, '64 356C, and would strongly support a forum. In fact, my
other car is a '61 190 SL (Mercedes). Our club is much smaller than the
registry, about 700 members worldwide. Yet, our site is loaded with great
information, we have two volumes of a club book for owners, restorers,
enthusiasts, and a fantastic forum. I post there as "SLover".
www.190slgroup.com I must say, with the popularity of the 356 and the
amount of them still on the road (about double all 190 SLs produced), I was quite surprised there wasn't an active forum for the car out there. In
terms of convenience, wealth of information, getting to know people, posting pictures to show an issue, or originality, or a problem solved (picture worth a 1000 words), continuity of a particular subject, speed of response, etc., a forum is far superior to an email chat list. I belonged to an email chat list for MBenzes and eventually gave up on it. Way too fragmented and difficult to follow. Also, why have all these private conversations going on that the community can collectively benefit from? I think a forum would be an excellent edition to the 356 Registry and Vbulletin has excellent software. It's also used at www.bimmerfest.com for BMWs, a HUGE forum.

I was not aware at the time of the post that such discussion was verbotten. At the 190 SL Group we have one mindset, open mindedness to any and all things that will enhance the experience of owning a vintage 190 SL (check out the two club books!) I came to the Registry expecting the same, hence my post.

I've read through some of the responses here and agree, a forum on the Registry with the most consistent viewership and hits would offer the most robust and interactive forum. People want to have the consistency of the club to build on and branch off from. If the chat list format were to continue, I don't see a problem. Let members choose where they're most comfortable and where they get the most enjoyment. I'm sure there's more than enough room for both.

By the way, here's my '64 356C that I got a month ago. Spending time getting everything working just right. Engine rebuilt by Dick Weiss. Car is an original CA. car, restored in FLA and now in WI, no rust, no major accidents. A "refurbishing" was done, paint, engine, front windshield, but a lot of originality...most of original fawn interior (note the color vs. tan), original dash paint, electrics, etc. A true blast to drive and own. Don't be jealous of everyone's favorite color combination! I've already upgraded to Halogen H4s and used Joe Leoni's relay upgrade www.356electrics.com Other pictures can (or will) be found at www.memory-motors.com

P.S. Can't do this on a chat list!

Mon Oct 01, 2007 7:05 pm

356 Lover wrote: This was my post on the Chat List before I was resoundingly put down and told to drop it.

I'm new here, '64 356C, and would strongly support a forum. In fact, my
other car is a '61 190 SL (Mercedes). Our club is much smaller than the
registry, about 700 members worldwide. Yet, our site is loaded with great
information, we have two volumes of a club book for owners, restorers,
enthusiasts, and a fantastic forum. I post there as "SLover".
www.190slgroup.com I must say, with the popularity of the 356 and the
amount of them still on the road (about double all 190 SLs produced), I was quite surprised there wasn't an active forum for the car out there. In
terms of convenience, wealth of information, getting to know people, posting pictures to show an issue, or originality, or a problem solved (picture worth a 1000 words), continuity of a particular subject, speed of response, etc., a forum is far superior to an email chat list. I belonged to an email chat list for MBenzes and eventually gave up on it. Way too fragmented and difficult to follow. Also, why have all these private conversations going on that the community can collectively benefit from? I think a forum would be an excellent edition to the 356 Registry and Vbulletin has excellent software. It's also used at www.bimmerfest.com for BMWs, a HUGE forum.

I was not aware at the time of the post that such discussion was verbotten. At the 190 SL Group we have one mindset, open mindedness to any and all things that will enhance the experience of owning a vintage 190 SL (check out the two club books!) I came to the Registry expecting the same, hence my post.

I've read through some of the responses here and agree, a forum on the Registry with the most consistent viewership and hits would offer the most robust and interactive forum. People want to have the consistency of the club to build on and branch off from. If the chat list format were to continue, I don't see a problem. Let members choose where they're most comfortable and where they get the most enjoyment. I'm sure there's more than enough room for both.

By the way, here's my '64 356C that I got a month ago. Spending time getting everything working just right. Engine rebuilt by Dick Weiss. Car is an original CA. car, restored in FLA and now in WI, no rust, no major accidents. A "refurbishing" was done, paint, engine, front windshield, but a lot of originality...most of original fawn interior (note the color vs. tan), original dash paint, electrics, etc. A true blast to drive and own. Don't be jealous of everyone's favorite color combination! I've already upgraded to Halogen H4s and used Joe Leoni's relay upgrade www.356electrics.com Other pictures can (or will) be found at www.memory-motors.com

P.S. Can't do this on a chat list!

356 lover,

I saw your post this morning. Thank you for posting this morning. I checked out the www.190slgroup.com. Nice cars! I'm definitely a fan of early MB's.

I didn't see a public email regarding you post. Were you sent a private message about the topic of your email being verbotten? What a shame!

Nice pic's of your coupe. Togo Brown? Do you know where in Florida it was restored? Just curious...Looks like a great job.

Thanks for sharing your pic's!

Drive 'Em!

Mark

Mon Oct 01, 2007 7:17 pm

I love that color!

Tue Oct 02, 2007 5:48 am

mpribanic wrote: I didn't see a public email regarding you post. Were you sent a private message about the topic of your email being verbotten? What a shame!

Nice pic's of your coupe. Togo Brown? Do you know where in Florida it was restored? Just curious...Looks like a great job.

Mark

Hi Mark,
All the responses I got were private, one in particular excusing me for being new and not seeing his directive to not discuss this issue on the chat list.

Yes, Togo Brown (thanks Kev!) with a fawn interior. Except for the front seats, which were recovered with an NOS kit from Germany so the color matched, all the vinyl is original. The reproduction fawn, to my understanding, is not the correct color.

I'll have to look at the records to see the shop that did the body work. The fellow that restored the car lives in FLA. and his wife was past president of PCA. The car then went to Indiana and then my friend, www.memory-motors.com spotted and purchased the car from RM Auctions event in Meadowbrook, MI this summer. It's in terrific shape with a lot of originality and I've been going after a punch list of relatively minor stuff...worn out gaskets, boots, screws, adjusting linkages,etc., just bringing it up another notch. It is leaking gear oil at the right rear wheel and is going in today to be fixed. I don't feel comfortable dealing with that just yet. The engine was done by Dick Weiss in Ohio, big bore kit, reworked cam. It runs beautifully and is full of pep right from the get go.

The 190 SL is a great car, beautiful to look at. A whole different animal than the 356. Much heavier steering, not as peppy, heavier car (2500 lbs.). But, loaded with style, chrome, leather and MB quality. Basically, a beautiful boulevard cruiser. The two make a nice pair in my garage. Mine was the International 190 SL Group's 2006 best of show winner.

Tue Oct 02, 2007 1:32 pm

I support a forum accessed through and sanctioned by the 356 Registry.

To my thinking there is no point worth debating in support of an email talk list. The subject line often gives no clue to what the message or subject is. It clogs up the email, no pictures...on and on.

The Registry and the people there and on the talk list are fantastic but change comes hard. It will happen eventually.

I will bet that once the forum happens the loudest opponents to it will fall right in line, never to be heard from on the subject again. You will see them posting pictures, etc. and hopefully no one will try to rub noses in it.

Regards

Ashley Page
Registry member

Here is a picture of my car going for a little metal work and paint. That was 3 weeks ago. I will have it back for assembly in about 6 weeks.
I have owned the car for 27 years.

Thu Oct 04, 2007 1:59 pm

HI guys yes I agree infact I started a Classic356 forum and it was slow to start with but was very good infact people could see the use as the pictures where able to say a 1000 words and people could help more.

I have a battle with PCGB so i know 100% where your comming from.

I just hope the board see the use for the new forum as an extension to what they have already but with new more useful tools to boot..

it's trackable

you can see replies and follow threads

you can add pictures to help show a problem

the world gets smaller

so much more benifit to this type of forum

PCGB has a 356 forum.. join in if you like would be nice to see a few people from out side the UK join in

http://www.porscheclubgbforum.com/

just register ( so I am told ) and you can join in.. please do.. I join in with the US froums it's nice to pop to different ones and we all know each other.. :wink: