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Wed Nov 14, 2007 4:44 pm

Every now and then I see an add for a bus that makes me puke into my mouth. Like over 60 grand for a restored splitty and so forth. Is anyone actually getting these prices? Is it just the odd cokehead rapper/rapper/celeb/rich old fart actually paying these prices? Is the market really that high? I see restored buses ranging from 20-65 grand and that kind of spread is of course ridiculous; there is a true market value and what is the reality?
with the cost of repro parts and bodywork does anyone actually make any money or are people just hoping they will be the next beany baby?

Wed Nov 14, 2007 4:47 pm

I see them listed at that price too so they must be getting those prices.

Too rich for my blood.

Wed Nov 14, 2007 4:52 pm

lots of old money that worked hard in their youth, now have enough to pay for emotional purchases.

over a shorter term, I kept my bus in unrestored condition for 6 years, saved up, and now I can afford to restore it right. by my own hands. the above are paying for those hands.

Wed Nov 14, 2007 6:03 pm

Basilbomb wrote: I see restored buses ranging from 20-65 grand and that kind of spread is of course ridiculous; there is a true market value and what is the reality?

How is that kind of spread ridiculous when you consider the variety in busses that were offered? There are the rarer models like 23 windows or later splitties with factory sliding door. Now consider the fact that some of these "restored" bus are made of whatever parts the person could find to complete the bus. On the other hand there are Restored buses that have every part proper to that year down to the engine number.

Wed Nov 14, 2007 6:15 pm

I would expect a reasonably rare, and popular, model in a good color combo that was restored beyond new condition with minimal signs of wear to pull at least $40,000. Even doing 85% of the work yourself you can't restore much of anything to perfection for less then that these days.

There must be the odd mint survivor out there isn't there? It seems like the kind of vehicle that you would find very low mileage campers parked in garages every now and then.

Wed Nov 14, 2007 6:29 pm

Split`s will allway`s go high 23 and 21 it`s the history. But if you got a clean Bay keep it. I got $14900.00 for mine two years ago and I sure there going to bring even more in years to come. Camper are hot and will be. Thank about it something the family can enjoy. Bays will and are bringing more and more money every year.

Wed Nov 14, 2007 6:33 pm

lets see. what is median income these days? 44K? does a restorer deserve median income for his skills? yes. does it take a year- full time? yes. is the car really worth that much? no- of course not IMO. but if you are so silly rich that you just wont miss 40,000 being gone from your bank account, then there is a car for you advertised here and there.

being average, like all the rest of us here, you will find that so many things (prices) in life will make you puke up into your mouth. for me personally, getting only 10K for a non-split bus that took me a year to restore is going to me puke up into my mouth.

Wed Nov 14, 2007 8:01 pm

Steve White wrote:

There must be the odd mint survivor out there isn't there? It seems like the kind of vehicle that you would find very low mileage campers parked in garages every now and then.

my wife's great uncle ownes a 23 window that is all original. He's the original owner & bought it on Martha's Vineyard at the dealership out there and it has never left the island.. they have a summer house out there.

Wed Nov 14, 2007 8:24 pm

nebe wrote: Steve White wrote:

There must be the odd mint survivor out there isn't there? It seems like the kind of vehicle that you would find very low mileage campers parked in garages every now and then.

my wife's great uncle ownes a 23 window that is all original. He's the original owner & bought it on Martha's Vineyard at the dealership out there and it has never left the island.. they have a summer house out there.

Hahah, holy crap, there was a VW dealership on Martha's Vineyard? Where? Does the dealership still exist?

Wed Nov 14, 2007 8:24 pm

everytime i see a bay window sell on E-*#$ i watch it & see what the final bid was .i notice that at "auction"
a complete good running bus in deceent condition is about $5-6k
more if its rust free
less if has dents
more if its origanal
less if it has funky seats & carpet in back
when it comes to westy you can double & triple that.
these are auction prices im sure that having the time to offer it somewhere like samba or pomona swap meet where you can see the bus in detail will help sell bus for a whole lot more
ill go on to say that all vw campers are still very desirable to use & abuse to take to beach, fishing, camping, canoeing ,snowboarding,etc....
not just as a classic car
alot of these people dont have time to search for new cabinets because they are driving to grand canyon or cruising highway 1 in califonia to go surfing

so alot of them are willing to pay for all the hard work & time that it took to restore & make realible again

Wed Nov 14, 2007 8:50 pm

vw76westy wrote: everytime i see a bay window sell on E-*#$ i watch it & see what the final bid was .i notice that at "auction"
a complete good running bus in deceent condition is about $5-6k
more if its rust free
less if has dents
more if its origanal
less if it has funky seats & carpet in back
when it comes to westy you can double & triple that.
these are auction prices im sure that having the time to offer it somewhere like samba or pomona swap meet where you can see the bus in detail will help sell bus for a whole lot more
ill go on to say that all vw campers are still very desirable to use & abuse to take to beach, fishing, camping, canoeing ,snowboarding,etc....
not just as a classic car
alot of these people dont have time to search for new cabinets because they are driving to grand canyon or cruising highway 1 in califonia to go surfing

so alot of them are willing to pay for all the hard work & time that it took to restore & make realible again

I've always been a big fan of the "clean lines" of the normal Bay Bus, without the fiberglass pop-top. I've always liked the inside of a Westfalia though...

I've heard that there is a type of Bus known as a "Weekender". Where can I find more information about that? Although my 73 Bus isn't a Weekender, I wouldn't mind converting it to one. I found all the hardware and the wood (threw away the cusions) for a full-width "Z" bed in the junkyard. It has some ridiculously crazy orange plaid on it. It looked cool, but man it was nasty...

I was told when I bought my Bus that it was a 73 "Deluxe" Bus, but I can't really tell anything about my Bus that would make it more Deluxe than any other Bus? What do you figure that Weekenders go for?

Wed Nov 14, 2007 9:06 pm

My bay has been for sale awhile on this site. Aside from a paint job done 5 years ago, its all orginal. I've replaced parts with parts from other vw's over the years. No rust issues, things work. No one cares though. As soon as I mention that it has 200,000 miles and needs an engine rebuild, so it will pass smog in CA everyone runs away.Like she has a disease. It drives great, I drive it all over. Next Spring I am taking it up to Washington State, so I can register it there and sell it, without having to say it won't pass CA emissions. As far as getting any offers over $3000 I have to be dreaming.I've seen beautiful bays on ebay get offers of under $5000, and easily just the body work is worth that. Makes me puke. Mine is listed as a campermobile, according to the org. dealer papers. So, I don't think very many bays get the money they are worth, especially on e**y.

Wed Nov 14, 2007 10:14 pm

Quote: No rust issues, things work. No one cares though. As soon as I mention that it has 200,000 miles and needs an engine rebuild, so it will pass smog in CA everyone runs away.Like she has a disease.

problem is: those who have over 5000 in their pocket, havent had time to practice their skills in auto repair- they were at their full time job... even if they have the skills, it takes forever to get it done when all you have is the weekend- or small parts of it.

if they try to hire it done, they get screwed by incompetence and/or lack of integrity.

so- pricewise, there is little middle ground between a project and a ready-to-go bus.

i found that it takes forever to get it done, and i knew that i would never get the money out of the work i put in. others would try to tell me to sell the beautifully painted bus without the engine. thats when i explained to them that i would get 2000 w/o engine and 8000 with the engine.

as we all know life aint fair. 40K is too much for a split. 8K is not enough for a restored bay. and if you buy either one, it could break a week later due to incompetence issues. its also not fair that a project sells for 1K-4K. considering the work involved, they should give it away. but no, the parts are worth that much- so you cant get it for free. bottom line- cars are very demanding

Wed Nov 14, 2007 11:27 pm

It is easy to add up the numbers and get 20-40K in repairs and upgrades.

$6000 Jake Raby engine
$1500 Tranny rebuild and clutch
$1100 new tires and wheels
$8000 body work and paint
$1500 all new bushing, ball joints, etc on front and rear
$5000 all new interior
$1000 good sound system
$600 brakes
$1500 new heater boxes and flappers and other heater parts.
$200 replace all cables and hoses.

This is $26,400 if I added right and you have to throw in a few thousand for the original cost of the van and any profit the seller will get. It is great to be lucky and find a van for $500 that is mint inside and out, but not everyone has to time to chase every lead that comes their way, many would just like to write a check and end up with a dependable ride that will take their family to the lake every year for a decade.

Thu Nov 15, 2007 12:41 am

well bully, you also live in southern california where it often seems you cant turn a corner without seeing a vintage vw. i paid 4k for mine in the midwest (it spent its life in cali/nevada). its a 73 westy with a 2.0 replacement block and probbably close to 200k on the frame around 15k on the new motor (unconfirmed due to broken odometer). i told a lady who was talking to me about it in rocky ford colorado what i paid and she about shit. i laughed at her and told her she really didnt get it. there simply ARENT bays or splitties in the midwest in very large numbers. what would have been at least a K or more than i would have paid on the west coast it was quite a bit less than what ive seen busses in worse shape go for around here.

the other issue is so many of the good rust free busses are on the west coast so even if you could get 5k for it from someone in the midwest its impractical to fly out and drive it back and/or ship it. especially when you never know if the person is representing the bus correctly. i could buy a one way ticket to southern cali to pick up a bus only to find out it was a piece of shit and basically be out the cost of a ticket there and then out the cost of a ticket back. on short notice that could easily be around 2k for nothing.

im honestly suprised how cheap a lot of busses go on the samba. im also suprised how high a lot of them go considering what you could get that was comparable. i dont see a point, as a driver, to buy a low mileage og paint bus for 3 to 5x more than what i could get a daily driver with an overspray and high miles. then again im also learning to do a lot of the work myself.

in the end though these suckers are only worth what we can get someone to pay for them. sometimes people have way more money than brains so they pay outrageous prices for these vehicles. that doenst seem to be the norm though from my observations and especially isnt going to be on the west coast.

Thu Nov 15, 2007 1:40 am

i totally agree with dansvans its either complete & ready to go or its not
hey bully if the bus runs good maybe your airflow box needs to be adjusted mine was a gross pulluter but that was all it nedded done
if then passed smog & its a camper with the cabinets you should have no problem selling for 5k [ready to go]

also only someone who was planning on keeping that bay for a long loooong time would drop 6k for a engine & therefor not be for sale
& if it was im sure it would have a price tag to match the size of eng

Thu Nov 15, 2007 3:47 am

As far as I'm concerned, there is only one practical way to go about it. Find a solid, rust free complete bus that hasn't been monkeyed with. Don't pay any attention to the condition of the upholstery, window seals (all seals), paint, tires, whether the engine runs or not, brakes, etc., etc. Don't plan on using it anytime in the near future. The closer to the original condition the better. Don't be concerned that it needs a lot of work to get it in good shape. Avoid one that has had much work done to it. As the majority of repair work that has been done is probably inferior quality and has hurt it, not helped it.. Get the mindset that everything mechanical and everything cosmetic on the entire bus will need to be restored, replaced, renewed, etc. before it will ever run and look good and be dependable. Then get to work and do it. Don't touch anything mechanical unless you do it by the books. And don't get the false idea that, for instance, putting in a rebuilt engine is going to make it wonderful. It won't. Because a good engine is no good unless everything else associated with it is also in good shape. Cables, lines wires, etc. When you have gone thru every single part, item, nut & bolt, then it starts to take on a whole new character. It's the one little item that you don't pay attention to that will be it's weak point. And don't get the idea that it can be your daily driver while you are restoring it. It just won't work out. The bottom line is that it will probably cost around $5,000 for parts. That's not the best quality parts, but reasonable quality parts. (No Gene Berg stuff). And then a few hundred hours of your time. 3 or 4 hundred dollars for minimal tools. And some labor costs for machining, sandblasting and so on. But do it all good once and then take good care of it and it it should remain in good condition for many years. Be enjoyable and dependable and hold a good value in the future.

Thu Nov 15, 2007 10:02 am

Well spoken...and perfectly logical.

Thu Nov 15, 2007 10:15 am

Quote: This is $26,400 if I added right and you have to throw in a few thousand for the original cost of the van and any profit the seller will get.

but its not really PROFIT. its PAYMENT for the effort it takes to dissemble and assemble it, etc. profit makes it sound like you merely bought and sold something- like flipping an item.

Quote: As far as I'm concerned, there is only one practical way to go about it. Find a solid, rust free complete bus that hasn't been monkeyed with. Don't pay any attention to the condition of the upholstery, window seals (all seals), paint, tires, whether the engine runs or not, brakes, etc.,

exactly, but be concerned about what bondo and bent metal lies beneath the paint. a magnet will tell you all... perhap thats what you meant by "not monkeyed with". just thought i would clarify, as this is no minor point.

if you have too much surface repair to do , it can take months of fulltime work. i did that once, and it was enough of that mistake for one lifetime. my current daily driver is in original paint, and i couldnt be happier about that. no surprises.

Thu Nov 15, 2007 10:58 am

its also not a good idea to buy a beater to restore with the intent of making a "profit". just beacuse you put X dollars into a vehicle you are restoring that does not always (usually) equate the vehicle is worth X dollars when you are finished.