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Fri Nov 23, 2007 10:04 pm

Between a 411 and a 412?

Fri Nov 23, 2007 10:06 pm

years, noses, rear lights, bumpers

Fri Nov 23, 2007 10:51 pm

I ment other then the obvious body differences....

Fri Nov 23, 2007 11:07 pm

Skate wrote: Between a 411 and a 412?

1

Fri Nov 23, 2007 11:16 pm

KTPhil wrote: Skate wrote: Between a 411 and a 412?

1

=D> ha ha ha.. oh shit. that's good.

Sat Nov 24, 2007 10:02 am

that's it!

until the 74 year went to the 1.8L and L-Jet, they were the same.

Sat Nov 24, 2007 12:53 pm

Weird.. well thanks!!!!

Sat Nov 24, 2007 12:53 pm

Skate wrote: Between a 411 and a 412?

... Seriously, I think it was mostly styling change. The 411 wasn't selling so well, and frankly it looked too much like the type 3 to the general public, so I think VW made some quick mods to the exterior to brighen up the car's image.

My Dad bought a new 1972 in the silver metallic paint. (CA Lic ... ETQ if anybody has it ... let me know :wink: ) and we kept it on till the 80's. The paint started to peel in less than a year and VW was very "uncooperative". It REALLY pissed my Dad off, cause this was like the 6th VW he had bought and it was clearly a manufacturing defect.

Sat Nov 24, 2007 1:44 pm

It's too bad they didn't do so well. They look cool to my eyes today, and they certainly were comfy and roomy. I read that they were considered too underpowered. It sure would have been easier to make that car meet crash standards than any earlier models. I guess it was about as far as they could push rear engined, air cooled technology and still meet a price point. The deval of the mark didn't help VW in any way, but it seemed to have hit the T4 hardest.

Sat Nov 24, 2007 3:10 pm

vwfye wrote: that's it!

until the 74 year went to the 1.8L and L-Jet, they were the same.

That's correct for the wagons and 4 doors, the 2 dr. sedans retained the 1.7L and D-Jet in '74.

Sat Nov 24, 2007 3:15 pm

VW had a very poor understanding of the American market at the time these cars were introduced. They were trying to make their cars too Americanized at the same time that Americans were revolting against Detroit junk and looking overseas for their wheels. The automatic transmission with the high rear axle ratio really knocked the power of these cars for a loop. Had they imported more cars with 4 sp's the car would certainly have had a better rep. The best sales year for the T4 was 1974, why did they quit with them just as sales were taking off?

Sun Nov 25, 2007 7:49 am

Thanks for all the info guys.

Sun Nov 25, 2007 12:08 pm

Having owned two 411s and three 412s I'd say the major difference is that nose up front. I think the 411 looks friendlier, more VW-ish, while the scooped-down more aerodynamic front of the 412 looks more sinister and macho. Also, I think the 411 looks like an old Volvo, and the 412 looks like and old BMW. Technically, the 1974 412 wagon has the upgraded fuel injection system, much simpler and easier to fix (if you can find the parts!) than the system on 411s. Also: "411" just rolls of the tongue so much easier than "4-12". Poetry on wheels.

Sun Nov 25, 2007 4:32 pm

I had one years ago, it must have been a 74 because the problem with the car was the fuel injection intake thingy majiger. I'm not sure if it was a 411 or a 412.

Tue Nov 27, 2007 2:03 pm

ubercrap wrote: vwfye wrote: that's it!

until the 74 year went to the 1.8L and L-Jet, they were the same.

That's correct for the wagons and 4 doors, the 2 dr. sedans retained the 1.7L and D-Jet in '74.
Not in Europe.. 1974 got either the 1,8N low CR engne (75hp) or the high CR 1:8,6 85hp model with bigger vents (30mm instead of 28mm) in the 40mm Solex carbs.

1974 model has lots of other technical mods. Springs and the struts themselves (other mouting pattern as a visual aid), tranny (both auto and manual had differences, not just ratios!).

Thu Nov 29, 2007 11:08 am

Beetspeed wrote: ubercrap wrote: vwfye wrote: that's it!

until the 74 year went to the 1.8L and L-Jet, they were the same.

That's correct for the wagons and 4 doors, the 2 dr. sedans retained the 1.7L and D-Jet in '74.
Not in Europe.. 1974 got either the 1,8N low CR engne (75hp) or the high CR 1:8,6 85hp model with bigger vents (30mm instead of 28mm) in the 40mm Solex carbs.

1974 model has lots of other technical mods. Springs and the struts themselves (other mouting pattern as a visual aid), tranny (both auto and manual had differences, not just ratios!).

Yes, I should have written that my comments applied specifically to the U.S. market. Very true that the '74 has a substantial amount seemingly minor, but often important, technical differences.

Sat Dec 01, 2007 8:20 am

Beetspeed wrote: 1974 model has lots of other technical mods. Springs and the struts themselves (other mouting pattern as a visual aid), tranny (both auto and manual had differences, not just ratios!).

Greetings Wally, what is different about '74 manual trans? I have one from a US car that I plan on rebuilding for my '73 coupe.

Sat Dec 01, 2007 11:23 am

AFAIK, at least the 2nd gear synchos had a big improvement done to them. It is quite noticeble on my car :wink:

Thu Jan 03, 2008 8:25 pm

As far as suspension: different years have different sway bar diameters and the 411 used a friction washer up front where the top of the strut tower mounts to the body and the 412 uses a berring theat lasts a lot longer.

Wed Jan 09, 2008 10:53 am

Quote: The best sales year for the T4 was 1974, why did they quit with them just as sales were taking off?

I believe that ending the 412 was an easy desicion (but sad to us):
VW had (1974) in their group to many similar size cars hardly not sharing any components (412, K70, Audi 100, NSU Ro80, Passat/Dasher). The Audi 100 was even made at the same line as the 412!
The 412 and the K70 had to come to an end making room for the new generation: Passat/Golf/Polo etc which all had a lot in common and were much more adapted to modern production.
/Lars