TheSamba.com :: View topic - Up in smoke... Bus fires... don't let it happen to you!

Mon May 18, 2009 7:16 pm

BellePlaine wrote: Do you guys put hose clamps on your vent lines over the gas tank?

man you scared me there for a minute, when this thread turns green i get nervous!

some people put hose clamps on everything some people dont use any, my take is what will it hurt? if you got 'em use them they don't hamper anything.

Tue May 19, 2009 4:35 am

Haha! Sorry! I thought this would be a good thread to ask. Thanks lizzardking.

Sun Jul 05, 2009 8:13 pm

Excellent tip, don't forget to check the clamps every so often too.
I had a fuel hose "pop off" while flying down I-5 outside Bakersfield.. I am so lucky it was after midnight too....
The whole bus just shuts down. No lights, no engine, nuthin, ok there where turn signals =) So I coast it over to the side of the road and jump out. Going around back I quickly smell gas, and hear a sizzling sound. ...Sh!t! >
I throw open the bay door, to grab my flashlight, and Sammy dog jumps out. Now lighting up the backend, I very quickly see LOTS of gas spilling out onto the exaust manifold, where it sizzles into vapor....
Oh, and now the Doberman is running towards the I-5 freeway .@ Midninght!!
First I contain the dog, tying him to a nearby fence post. The whole time thinking in my head ...ok it's cool outside and it hasn't ignited yet... !!!
Then quickly maneuvering underneath I stuffed the fuel line back onto the FPR, where it popped had off, and tightened the clamp which somehow failed. End of scary story, and the bus runs on!!

Mon Jul 06, 2009 11:23 am

sweeet !! near miss! glad it worked out for you man!
now everyone go check the fire clause on your insurance as even with clamps sh*t happens!!!

Mon Jul 06, 2009 10:17 pm

timo78 wrote: Excellent tip, don't forget to check the clamps every so often too.
I had a fuel hose "pop off" while flying down I-5 outside Bakersfield.. I am so lucky it was after midnight too....
The whole bus just shuts down. No lights, no engine, nuthin, ok there where turn signals =) So I coast it over to the side of the road and jump out. Going around back I quickly smell gas, and hear a sizzling sound. ...Sh!t! >
I throw open the bay door, to grab my flashlight, and Sammy dog jumps out. Now lighting up the backend, I very quickly see LOTS of gas spilling out onto the exaust manifold, where it sizzles into vapor....
Oh, and now the Doberman is running towards the I-5 freeway .@ Midninght!!
First I contain the dog, tying him to a nearby fence post. The whole time thinking in my head ...ok it's cool outside and it hasn't ignited yet... !!!
Then quickly maneuvering underneath I stuffed the fuel line back onto the FPR, where it popped had off, and tightened the clamp which somehow failed. End of scary story, and the bus runs on!!

You didn't tighten it enough to begin with...Guaranteed

99% of PC problems are sitting in front of the keyboard.

Tue Jul 14, 2009 8:20 am

Couple of tips and a suggestion. Once stopped, oxy is limited in the engine compartment, but still enough to sustain a fire. The minute you pop the lid, a great mass of oxy gets to mingle with the fuel vapor off the manifolds.

It's a good idea to carry two extinguishers. One in the driving compartment (I like the steering column idea!). The second could be rigged to blow straight into the engine compartment from the rear hatch. Perhaps mounted in the spare tire well, inside a cabinet, or just mounted on a bulkhead, with the hose leading to the engine area.

If you sense a fire in the engine, stop the bus, run around to the rear hatch, and pull the pin on the mounted extinguisher. It's rigged to blow directly into the now-oxy starved engine compartment.

Then the hard part. Wait. And wait some more. If you pop the lid too early, a huge mass of oxy will regenerate any hotspots. Meanwhile you've retrieved your second bottle. If after a couple of minutes, smoke and heat are still roiling out of the engine compartment, you have no choice but to pop the lid and let go your last blast.

A tip: if you've never used an extinguisher before, you'll be amazed at how short a burst you get from a 2.5 pound bottle. So be calm, point at the fire (not just the general direction), and then pull the trigger. It's a one-shot pistol.

The important point is keeping oxy from the fire, keeping the lid closed as much as possible, and be ready to fight and then re-fight. For that you need two bottles and good nerves.

Mon Jul 27, 2009 10:48 am

Well, since Keifernet decided to lock my thread up....Maybe I should have titled it, Need help with fuel tank....with fire included in story. Why lock the thread man?

Wed Aug 05, 2009 6:09 am

Thought I could add this; my experience yesterday.
I noticed a fairly strong fuel smell on the way home yesterday. Initial visual inspection did not turn up anything. Once I got home I was walking around the bus and heard an intermittent sizzle noise.
I look under the bus and the foam engine seal is dripping fuel onto the heat exchanger.
The seal is absolutely soaked with fuel.
Turns out the #1 injector hose had given out:

So a little quality time and everything is fine. Even after I didn't seat the injector correctly and it spilled fuel again. :oops:
I replaces the hoses on both #1 and #2. I'll do the other side as soon as my injector seals arrive; I'll replace those on #1 and #2 as well when I get them.

So, could have been bad! Make sure you change those little hoses too! I changed all my fuel hose a couple months ago....except those.
When you change them, change them all!

Tue Aug 11, 2009 11:37 am

So I figured since most of the posts on this thread have to deal with replacing fuel lines, I would shoot out a question for you all. I did a search and didn’t come up with much.

I was looking here: http://www.ratwell.com/technical/FuelHoses.html#dualcarbs

Just like the bus on ratwell, I have a 72 (non FI) with dual carbs. I just wanted to make sure that my aftermarket dual webers are compatible with the “dual carbs” he’s talking about. Should I order these diameters?

Thanks for the advice!

Tue Aug 18, 2009 1:27 pm

Well I had replaced 2 of the fuel lines last week on my new bus, after reading this thread I went ahead and replaced the other one & the fuel filter. Making sure to place the fuel filter outside of the engine compartment (following a fellow posters advice). When the rain stops I will reconnect the battery and have my girlfriend standing by with the extinguisher while I start her up (maybe I should do that the other way around, her starting the bus with me standing by ready to take care of business).

-Aaron

EDIT: Started with no problems...

SIDE NOTE / QUESTION: The fuel lines run kinda close to the starter (not touching it), which gets quite hot. I followed the original path the old line was going, but I don't know if this is the best route...I don't want to worry about this melting into the lines or the filter... Is there a safe distance these should be from this?

Fri Dec 04, 2009 3:09 pm

After reading this thread, I redid the fuel lines I had recently done, removed the engine compartment filter and bought a fire extinguisher. A few nights later, a friend's old Ford truck caught on fire (stuck carb float leaked near ignition) and I was able to put it out with my new extinguisher before any major damage was done. That was a well spent twenty bucks ! :)

Wed Dec 09, 2009 3:54 pm

You know the Neil Young song "Long May You Run", with the lyric "It was back in Blind River, in 1962, that I last saw you alive..."?

Well, in 2000... maybe 2001... I was on my way to Vancouver from Ottawa (5000km, 300mi) in my '71 bus. I had owned it for about 6 months.

About 500 km west of Ottawa, in Blind River, Ontario (yep, the same Blind River) the bus began to chug. The more I pumped the pedal, the more it bogged down. Then, I began to smell burning rubber.

I got out and ran to the back of the bus. One of the fuel lines was burning. It hadn't gotten all the way through to the fuel yet, but very close. Luckily, I had a fire extinguisher tucked behind the drivers' seat. I put the fire out no problem. Crisis averted. Here's what had happened:

The grommet/hose that protects the accelerator cable as it passes through the fan shroud slipped inside the shroud. Every time I pumped the gas pedal, the bare accelerator cable rubbed on the sharp edge of the fan shroud. The friction caused the cable to get hotter and hotter, eventually getting hot enough to catch the fabric on the fuel line (directly above it) on fire.

After letting everything cooled down, I pulled the grommet/hose out of the fan shroud with some pliers, put some lube inside it, and duct taped it to the shroud so it couldn't (or at least wasn't as likely) to slip back in. The accelerator cable was frayed, but not broken. And, anyway, I didn't have a replacement.

Without further repair, this carried me the rest of the way there and all the way back.

If I hadn't had that fire extinguisher, that probably would have been the end of the bus. I will ALWAYS carry a fire extinguisher.

Mon Dec 21, 2009 6:33 pm

Just a thought. Vapour detection?

Prevention is better than cure.. as we all know.

So the first thing is sort out your lines, plenty said on that.

But even if thats done there is a step in between burst line and fire, there needs to be petrol for a good fire. and it smells.
I had a close call when I found my lines had cracked under the spare wheel well but I would not have found it unless I had failed my MOT and needed to work on the rear lights.

A bad headache later (due to fumes) and I soon smelt and knew things were not right.
I was lucky not to lose my van but it occured to me if I could permenently 'smell' my engine area, specifically smell petrol, then I'd have a better chance of getting in there before a fire broke out.

So lately (and I am still working on it) I have been looking into fuel vapour gauges/sensors (gas sensors i guess in the US)

and heres an interesting product
http://www.cruzpro.com/gd10.html
it detects fuel 'smell' at 10 to 25% below explosive levels.

May or may not have any legs to it, its a marine thing, but worth a mention, I want to have every chance of prevention before the fire starts.

Wed Dec 23, 2009 1:15 pm

I nearly came to grief on a 300km trip to the coast in South Australia when ,not that long after I haqd topped up the tank,the engine spluttered to a holt.I lifted the inspection lid and saw THE ENGINE BAY FLOODED WITH PETROL.The ferrel that holds the inlet to the right hand carby had popped off and fuel was pumping all over the place.How I never caught fire I'll never know- these ferrels are only pressed in so ,this is well worth looking out for-Phew :cry:

Mon Jan 18, 2010 3:02 pm

Disaster Avoided:
Noticed a heavy duty fuel smell after pulling the bus into the garage and parking it. Fired it up again, popped the hatch and saw gas spraying out of one of the rubber lines like a sprinkler. It must have been spraying the entire time I was driving. It was wet everywhere. Pulled the rubber line off and noticed cracks in the end of it. Looked like this.

This was the end of the line that ran into the splitter that sends to each carb.

Those little cracks is all it takes. So, reminder to all you good peoples to check yours.

Mon Jan 18, 2010 9:50 pm

dirigible wrote: The grommet/hose that protects the accelerator cable as it passes through the fan shroud slipped inside the shroud. Every time I pumped the gas pedal, the bare accelerator cable rubbed on the sharp edge of the fan shroud.

Glad it wasn't disasterous.
However there are no grommet/hoses that protects the accelerator cable as it passes through the fan shroud. Someone did a mickey mouse stupid modification. There is a steel tube that passes thru the front tin and on thru the fan shroud exiting right in front of the carb. It is a standard VW part that is used on bugs and busses. Also there is a flex tube that fits on the forward end of that steel tube (right in front of the front tin) and goes forward to slip on the steel tube welded into the frame.

Tue Jan 19, 2010 4:11 pm

Is there a guide or FAQ for replacing fuel lines? Something with pictures or a diagram that shows which hoses to replace would be good. Also, where to get fuel lines/hoses and how much to get (or do they come in a kit?).

In case this helps:
78 bus 2000cc FI
Colorado

Tue Jan 19, 2010 4:37 pm

GPSaxophone wrote: Is there a guide or FAQ for replacing fuel lines? Something with pictures or a diagram that shows which hoses to replace would be good. Also, where to get fuel lines/hoses and how much to get (or do they come in a kit?).

In case this helps:
78 bus 2000cc FI
Colorado

Like this? http://germansupply.com/home/customer/search.php?substring=fuel+hose+kit

Tue Jan 19, 2010 7:16 pm

I knew I had a torn filler neck since fuel poured out when I filled the tank. So today I replaced it and all of the fuel and vapor lines. While at it, I also found the fuel sender was not even installed in the tank. It was just sitting on top of the hole, loose. The gauge has not worked since I got the bus and I guess someone had messed with the sender and not installed it back tight to the tank. No wonder I had so much fuel smell inside the bus.

New sender is on it's way from Wolfberg West. IF the wiring and the gauge are both good, maybe I will now have some idea of how much fuel is in the tank while I drive around without fumes.

What a disaster waiting to happen, but luckily I found it and can now fix it BEFORE it is too late.

Wed Jan 20, 2010 9:31 am

busdaddy wrote: GPSaxophone wrote: Is there a guide or FAQ for replacing fuel lines? Something with pictures or a diagram that shows which hoses to replace would be good. Also, where to get fuel lines/hoses and how much to get (or do they come in a kit?).

In case this helps:
78 bus 2000cc FI
Colorado

Like this? http://germansupply.com/home/customer/search.php?substring=fuel+hose+kit
That's it, thanks.