TheSamba.com :: View topic - Up in smoke... Bus fires... don't let it happen to you!

Wed Nov 28, 2007 3:54 pm

solexes@hotmail.com wrote: The cloth ones insulate from heat. The rubber - while reinforced is not designed to operate in the temps that CAN happen in the Air Cooled engine compartment. Think on it - the heads themselves - if you are going up a HUGE incline - may reach close to 400 degrees. Melt City! The cloth helps stop that from happening. I've been reading into a a bit and it appears not te be the case. The cloth jacket's function is, like udidwht said, to protect the rubber from damage, either to prevent chaffing or protect the rubber against UV

Sat Dec 01, 2007 1:15 pm

One way to help prevent air-cooled VW engine fires is by not putting those plastic fuel filters in the engine compartment. VW NEVER put them there for a good reason. Please - Put one ahead of the engine above the tranny. If you use braided cloth wrapped hose make absolutely certain it is Continental brand with WHITE lettering that says MADE IN GERMANY. I've seen the red lettered braided hose fail within 3 months.

Tue Dec 04, 2007 9:17 am

Quote: This is the simplest system that I know of that will stop the fuel flow on a fuel injected bus once the pump is shut off. Low tech and totally automatic. Get two of their Series 100 cartridge valves sized to the ID of the fuel line and set at 24" water. Install one in the line between the tank and the fuel pump and the other in the return near the tank. For a carbureted rig you would only need one.

Wildthings... I don't think that the check valve will work. According to the your link the valves take at least 2 psi to open. The fuel in the tank will not give you more than .86 psi in head pressure. The valve won't open. A diaphragm (positive displacement) pump might pull enough vacuum to open the valve, but would have a reduced flow. The FI pump is a flooded suction roller pump (semi-postive displacement) and will not self prime. It likely would starve for fuel.

The only reliable shut-off that would not impact flow rates would be a 12v solenoid valve. They don't draw much current and could be wired with a relay to the fuel pump. The valve would open each time the fuel pump cycled on. Wiring an interupt switch in to the circut would give you a dash mounted safety switch. An industrial grade stainless steel solenoid valve with 1/4" npt inlet and outlet retails for under $50. Of course as the complexity increases, so does the failure rate.

Tue Dec 04, 2007 11:16 am

This is interesting, they have changed their ad. It did say from 2" of water to 20 psi. I will have to check further, you are right 2 psi would be too high.

reasley wrote: Quote: This is the simplest system that I know of that will stop the fuel flow on a fuel injected bus once the pump is shut off. Low tech and totally automatic. Get two of their Series 100 cartridge valves sized to the ID of the fuel line and set at 24" water. Install one in the line between the tank and the fuel pump and the other in the return near the tank. For a carbureted rig you would only need one.

Wildthings... I don't think that the check valve will work. According to the your link the valves take at least 2 psi to open. The fuel in the tank will not give you more than .86 psi in head pressure. The valve won't open. A diaphragm (positive displacement) pump might pull enough vacuum to open the valve, but would have a reduced flow. The FI pump is a flooded suction roller pump (semi-postive displacement) and will not self prime. It likely would starve for fuel.

The only reliable shut-off that would not impact flow rates would be a 12v solenoid valve. They don't draw much current and could be wired with a relay to the fuel pump. The valve would open each time the fuel pump cycled on. Wiring an interupt switch in to the circut would give you a dash mounted safety switch. An industrial grade stainless steel solenoid valve with 1/4" npt inlet and outlet retails for under $50. Of course as the complexity increases, so does the failure rate.

Tue Jan 29, 2008 7:03 pm

Just a quick comment on fuel hoses. It has been my experience for over 25 years that VW's quality on rubber and metal was sub standard compared to American vehicles of the same age. But maybe the lack of emphasis on rubber made the metal appear to be sub standard by having to endure moisture issues from seal leaks. I am a firm advocate of using a high quality American made fuel line and still replacing it from time to time. Oh, and always having a fire extinguisher on hand. In 1986 I had a carb to spill gas onto the exhaust after my brother and I rebuilt my carb together. It seems that he thought that I had tightened it and I thought that he tightened it and it didn't get tightened........ A women on 285east in Atlanta drove beside me and pointed toward my rear and there it was "FIRE". I pulled over and pulled the fuel line from the tank from under the engine and used sand to extinguish the engine compartment fire (I was 23 and could move back then). Anyway, I ended up with burned wires, burned coil and a big tow bill. A place called Pete Lavene's Vw fixed it and I've been hooked on VW's ever since.

Sun Feb 10, 2008 11:47 am

First of all - overall I'd say that just using new fuel lines every few years is fine. A visual inspection a few times a year should spot any problems early.

But - I think; at least for carb people, the biggest danger comes from the brass fuel nipple coming out of the carb and leaking fuel. The first time I started and worked on my current '71 motor that fitting just popped right out.

So - in order to make this post a little more useful... here's the best thread I found on proper ways to fix this problem... still not sure which one I'm going to do. I like the threaded fitting idea...

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=44834&highlight=carb+fuel+brass+fix

Mon Feb 11, 2008 1:32 am

ccpalmer wrote: But - I think; at least for carb people, the biggest danger comes from the brass fuel nipple coming out of the carb and leaking fuel. The first time I started and worked on my current '71 motor that fitting just popped right out.

That's exactly what happened to me on my '64 bug with the original PICT carb.

I was sailing down the freeway when simultaneously the engine started sputtering and the cabin stank of fuel vapor. I killed the ignition and coasted to the shoulder and when I opened the deck lid I discovered my fuel line still attached to that brass pee-pee by the clamp, the thing hanging out in space. :shock:

The entire engine bay was wet with gas, and I marveled that there wasn't a single stray spark to make it a Molotov. I had not a single legitimate tool with me so I waited for the gas to dry, used a dime from the ashtray to undo the clamp, tapped the nipple back into the carb body with the jack handle, slipped the fuel line back on and retightened the clamp. Never had any more trouble with it, but I remembered to check the nipple for tightness every chance I got.

Mon Mar 03, 2008 11:23 am

I had the pleasure of taking a gasoline shower yesterday (full fuel tank and too short on the coupling hose. Although not much fun, and kind of stupid, I finished replacing almost all of the lines of the fuel system. (will finish the last three tank lines when it's not quite so full) Upon looking at the German Supply diagram (which was quite helpful) I noticed that my girlfriends bus was missing the hard lines that run from the fuel rails to the cold start injector. This is probably why the right side rubbed through on a trip to Ohio a few years ago (before I was involved in her busses maintenance). I guess the shop that installed her engine saw fit to stretch the fuel line across the tin inatead of using a longer length or installing new steel lines. I'm sure there are a few other busses out there missing these lines. I fabbed mine out of steel brake line bent to match the profile of the tin. Looks almost factory except my bends aren't all too pretty. I'll make some new ones using a bender next time.

Thu Mar 06, 2008 3:52 pm

Ive had my bus for 8 years now and Ive done thousands of miles and no probs. i did replace my hoses when i got the bus and i just drive it ,it has never really worried me about if my hoses will leak and set on fire to my bus ( after all i have had cars 20 years old and never even changed the hoses ) but the more i read about what hoses to us and how to fit them ect.. the more i can't help but think about my bus setting on fire when i drive down the road .here's what i say replace your fuel hoses and that's it after all my bus is 36 years old and its still ok

Mon Mar 17, 2008 9:03 am

Could the cause of some of the bus fires be from something igniting gas take fumes incorrectly routed?

Mon Mar 24, 2008 8:17 pm

best place to buy fuel line and type/ also placement of filter. is it overkill to have 2 (one on either end of the pump itself, or as far away from heat as possible?

Tue Mar 25, 2008 5:08 am

mr. moto! wrote: best place to buy fuel line and type/ also placement of filter. is it overkill to have 2 (one on either end of the pump itself, or as far away from heat as possible?

Electric pumps would rather push fuel than pull fuel, so the pump should be under or near the tank. Electric pump warranties are void if pump fails due to debris, warranty info on instructions. generally say to put a filter between pump and tank. Me? I like a filter before and after pump. I have found shiny metallic debris in my after filter pump, imagine that getting into carbs or injectors. Granted, the pump that ground itself into metal shavings, was an aftermarket one. Surprisingly that pump still works, although it is now my emergency back up pump and sometimes fuel transfer pump in my shop.

Tue Mar 25, 2008 8:40 am

mr. moto! wrote: best place to buy fuel line and type/ also placement of filter. is it overkill to have 2 (one on either end of the pump itself, or as far away from heat as possible?

If you are talking fuel line for a carburetor, West Marine sells fire resistant fuel line and you can get AN SS braided hose from Summit Racing. Either will give you a little extra time to put a fire out before it engulfs your van.

For fuel injection buy FI rated line from a foreign car auto parts.

Sat Mar 29, 2008 9:56 pm

The FI system is potentially very dangerous due to high pressure. I noticed once that if the key is off, the fuel pump will prevent fuel from flowing to the engine. Has anyone else noticed this?

Sun Mar 30, 2008 8:10 am

I bought this 7mm German fuel line from Randy at mofoco and I recommend it. It is high quality,made in Germany, 5 feet for $12 shipped.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/VW-TYPE-3-BEETLE-7-...QQtcZphoto

here's another auction for a similar price.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/vw-Beetle-BMW-5mm-G...enameZWDVW

Mon Mar 31, 2008 10:20 pm

okay, so im still trying to figure out where to mount my fuel filter? help a newb out? im afraid to mount it underneath as road debris might catch it.

Tue Apr 01, 2008 8:27 pm

dont everyone jump at the chance to answer, lol.

Sat Apr 05, 2008 5:28 pm

I've been thinking that a good system for putting out VW fires would be a MIG CO2 bottle rigged to two nozzles on each side of the engine compartment, then in case of a fire, just twist it open and let it flow. Emptying a 1000 liters of CO2 at 130 bars into the engine bay should put out most fires, esp. since the temp in the engine bay would drop to sub-zero temperatures.

Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:37 pm

Fireproofing your Kombi

http://thekombikonnection.myfreeforum.org/about221.html

Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:44 pm

Another Kombi burns

http://thekombikonnection.myfreeforum.org/about219.html