TheSamba.com :: View topic - Up in smoke... Bus fires... don't let it happen to you!!!

Mon Aug 04, 2008 9:02 am

Thanks for the info Tilly, I'll check that temp out and decied what to do.
jack

Tue Aug 12, 2008 3:58 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sb1zphrc9XA&feature=related

Firetrace demo..

Fri Aug 22, 2008 1:19 pm

Always replace fuel lines, dry and cracked lines are never acceptable.

Unless you're running a petrol station in Iran...

Fri Sep 19, 2008 6:00 pm

http://www.dailytidings.com/2008/0919/stories/0919_fire.php "...4:20 pm"!i!

Fri Sep 19, 2008 6:38 pm

I was watching a really old rerun of COPS, and they responded to a barn fire. A guy was working on a bay window, started the bus up, and bam, next thing you know a whole barn is engulfed. The guy was pretty upset.
Wish I could find a recording of it.

Fri Sep 19, 2008 7:01 pm

So I have a question. What are some "best practices" to follow when the worst happens, and your engine is on fire? You don't have a lot of time to act, so knowing exactly what to do might save your bus from being a total loss.

I would say the first thing would be to make sure you have a fire extinguisher in arm's reach...if you're depending on the one strapped to the bench seat in a Westy, then there's a good chance you're not going to be able to jump out of the driver's seat, run around to the other side, open the sliding door, grab the extinguisher, and run around to the engine hatch and save the bus in time. I have a larger extinguisher inside my center console so I can grab and go.

Is it a good idea to open up the engine hatch? I would think the door might be too hot to the touch, and plus you would be introducing a fresh oxygen supply to the fire, which might cause it to grow bigger. So would your best bet be to aim the extinguisher down the vents on the side?

I've luckily never had an engine fire, and all my fuel lines are replaced with brand new rubber reinforced German hose and solid style clamps on every fitting, suitable for FI. I'm just looking for advice from someone who maybe was able to save their bus from total meltdown and what they did to put out the fire quickly.

I've seen burned buses before...not a pretty sight!

Tue Sep 23, 2008 10:29 am

Okay, so where do you actually BUY the proper fuel hose? I've checked a couple of online retailers and the hose never seems to indicate wether it's the braided, German stuff - or the rubber stuff you can buy at Auto Zone

I found a section of unused NOS "Made In Germany" fuel line here lying around, but I don't know if I dare to use it.

And all these bus fires.. Is this a regional thing? My family grew up with about a hundred VW's either that we owned or my dad worked on, and I never heard of one going up in flames up here in Mass. Are the fuel lines more succeptable to drying out/cracking/developing leaks in the US southwest?

Tue Sep 23, 2008 11:32 am

lastchancevw wrote: Okay, so where do you actually BUY the proper fuel hose? I've checked a couple of online retailers and the hose never seems to indicate wether it's the braided, German stuff - or the rubber stuff you can buy at Auto Zone

I found a section of unused NOS "Made In Germany" fuel line here lying around, but I don't know if I dare to use it.

And all these bus fires.. Is this a regional thing? My family grew up with about a hundred VW's either that we owned or my dad worked on, and I never heard of one going up in flames up here in Mass. Are the fuel lines more succeptable to drying out/cracking/developing leaks in the US southwest?

It is best if the fuel line that you buy says for use with FI. If it doesn't I wouldn't trust it as being rated high enough. You can buy FI rated hose and clamps from many sources, it is not VW specific.

I don't think that VW catch fire all the much more often than other vehicle of similar age, but the results are apt to be much worse. The use of a lot of rubber fuel line where others run steel and the high tank location greatly increase the likelyhood of severe fires.

Wed Sep 24, 2008 11:12 am

But are the type 4 FI engine busses more likely to have fires than say a 71 with a upright single carb engine?

I'm noticing that the pananoia (gone all the way to the point of intalling a fire extinguisher on the rear bumper) seems to happen more likely in the US southwest. Up here in Mass, when we drove VW's for years and my dad worked on them, I never once heard of any fires at all.

I know you guys in the southwest burn through things like dashboards and window rubber in very quick time under the sun.. Does this affect fuel lines too- and since the later FI ones have a lot more fuel line, make them more likely to have fuel leaks i.e. catch fire?

When I put my engine back in, I'm going to replace all the fuel lines, I just want to buy the authentic german stuff (not sure if I trust the NOS stuff I have), and I'll put the filter before the fuel pump (not after).

When I say we had never had a VW fire, well, I have had one experience- A couple of years ago I did once catch a bus engine on fire, but it was from my own stupidity.. I was trying to get the bus running after sitting for over 10 years,

On this bus here:

The fuel line coming off the bottm of the tank (or maybe the tank was rusted out) leaked really bad, so any fuel you put in the tank just ran out the bottom. I was pouring little cup fulls of gas directly into the carb (and not putting the air cleaner bellows back on). It backfired and somehow a small fire.. When I noticed this (since I was running back and forth between the drivers seat and the engine) I freaked out and didn't have an extinguisher, so I had to run into the house (about 100 feet away) and grab a gallon of drinking water. I managed to put out the fire with that and the worst that was damaged was that some of the wires got burned. I think the fuel lines being dry might have kept any flames from running up the fuel line and to the tank.

In this case, it was the backfire that shot burning gas back onto the engine (I think), but (in normal circumstances) if leaky fuel lines get a spark somehow, wouldn't a wise thing be to try to maybe make the distributor less prone to letting gas into it? (like a liquid proof distributor cap) Maybe even some electrical tape on the HT leads coming off the distributor cap so that if fuel was spashing around, it wouldn't come in contact with spark.

And lastly, has anyone put fire-proof materials on the ceiling of the engine compartment? So that if there was a fire, you could maybe contain it to there for at least a while. I'd also say that some sort of tempature gauge right over the carb might be a good idea as well- something that could be on the dash to alert you of if the temp got above normal- that at least would alert you of flames that were on the surface of the engine.

Come to think of it- i wonder if the engine door on the later ones (73?-up) can potentially let flames up into the cabin- Seems to me it would be best to contain the fire if possible, since once it catches things like wooden Westy cabinets, it's all over for the rest of it.

Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:59 pm

Here is a small poll showing which buses have been known to burn.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=266356&start=20

It seems to correlate well with the number of carbed and FI buses on the road, they both burn. The amazing thing to me is no one claims to have had a bus with a progressive carb burn. With all the shitty progressive installations out there I would have thought them the most likely to fry.

As for there being less bus fires in the northeast than in the southwest I would guess that it has a lot to do with how long the buses last. A thirty five year old bus in Phoenix is likely in better shape than a two or three year old bus in salt country was and there is a good chance that little or nothing has ever been done to the fuel system in all that time.

Thu Sep 25, 2008 4:42 pm

My bus Chug Chug a 1977 Westy with a 2.0L type 4 engine went up 6 weeks ago it had all new wiring & fuel lines, in fact most of it was new inc. the twin 44 Webbers. I wish I knew what caused it so I Could avoid it happening again. :(

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2...;start=840

Sun Sep 28, 2008 3:49 pm

So does anyone have any experience replacing the majority of the lines with hard fuel lines? Obviously there are certain areas where one needs to have flexible lines to accommodate vibration and driveline motion, but It just seems like the most sensible thing to do.

Sun Sep 28, 2008 3:50 pm

So does anyone have any experience replacing the majority of the lines with hard fuel lines? Obviously there are certain areas where one needs to have flexible lines to accommodate vibration and driveline motion, but It just seems like the most sensible thing to do.

Sun Sep 28, 2008 8:47 pm

HeidelbergJohn4.0 wrote: So does anyone have any experience replacing the majority of the lines with hard fuel lines? Obviously there are certain areas where one needs to have flexible lines to accommodate vibration and driveline motion, but It just seems like the most sensible thing to do.

That is what I have done on my buses in the past. On the 74 it was pretty easy to find a place to run the hard line through the tranny support member. On the 77 there were reinforcements that got in the way so I had to carefully drill a hole through them. On the 74 I was able to connect the hard line directly to a needle valve I installed on the bottom of the tank, but on the 77 I still needed a bit of rubber hose to connect to the tank outlet. I intend to replace that piece of regular rubber hose with AN stainless steel braided line soon. Here is a pic of the set up on my 74.

Both the 74 and 77 run Holleys, but you can do pretty much the same with FI. I did so on my wife's Vanagon. Aim to get the connection from metal to rubber as high as possible in the engine compartment so that if and when you get a fire and the rubber hose burns through the tank will not drain by gravity.

Fri Oct 03, 2008 5:01 pm

I am gonna work on my fuel lines this weekend, hopefully my kit comes in tomorrow.

My question is how does the aluminum fuel line connect opposite of the hose end ?? Looks like some sort of nut? Any help would be appreciated!

Sat Nov 22, 2008 7:46 am

Car Fire at Chevron off Pico

November 21, 2008

Orange County Fire Authoriity firefighters made quick work of a VW bus fire this afternoon at the Chevron station on Avenida Pico just west of the San Diego (I-5) Freeway in San Clemente. No injuries were reported, and firefighters said the damage was confined to the older-styled bus, with minimal damage to the shelter over the gas-pump area. The fire broke out just after 3 p.m. and caused traffic to slow on Pico.

http://www.sanclementetimes.com/index.php?mact=New...eturnid=99