TheSamba.com :: View topic - -BUILDING the EFI Turbo- ~head Q's~

Tue Dec 04, 2007 1:35 am

dog_jr911 wrote: hmmm am i making this too complicated? :lol:

You are asking alot of turbo noob questions. :wink:

dog_jr911 wrote: how hard is it to wire up a EFI? any mods to the wiring harness?

You tell me, we're talking about hacking up a Beetle EFI system and controlling it with MS. :roll:

Tue Dec 04, 2007 10:22 am

Aren't the old fuel injected VWs done at the throttle body?

Tue Dec 04, 2007 6:25 pm

dubsquared wrote: Aren't the old fuel injected VWs done at the throttle body?

No.

Tue Dec 04, 2007 9:05 pm

miniman82 wrote: dog_jr911 wrote: hmmm am i making this too complicated? :lol:

You are asking alot of turbo noob questions. :wink:

dog_jr911 wrote: how hard is it to wire up a EFI? any mods to the wiring harness?

You tell me, we're talking about hacking up a Beetle EFI system and controlling it with MS. :roll:

well, i landed a EFI kit off a beetle for free, its coming off of a running bug. i just get to take it all apart! im going to grab everything. its a early 70's bug i believe. :D

im also getting a set of bus EFI hats, or intakes... i cant remember what they were called, but they were "bigger" for more airflow. :)

after i get the setup, ill clean it all up and start re-wiring things for the new controll unit.

anyone have a link for the MS unit?

yeah i am asking noob questions... but this is a forum....

Tue Dec 04, 2007 11:37 pm

guys at shoptalk are telling me the only thing i could use off that bug is the manifold, end castings, and maybe the throttle body.

anything else i should grab?

they recommend i use 40lb injectors.

im just not sure on the computer i want to put in it. i think it would be nice not to have a laptop to tune it, like with CB's dash modules. i just dont know what type of computer you would use for that "feature"

thanks again :ts: !

Tue Dec 04, 2007 11:42 pm

dog_jr911 wrote: well, i landed a EFI kit off a beetle for free, its coming off of a running bug. i just get to take it all apart! im going to grab everything. its a early 70's bug i believe. :D

Cool, grab everything. You never know how much of it you're gonna need, although I'd say the stock ECU is useless. :?

dog_jr911 wrote: im also getting a set of bus EFI hats, or intakes... i cant remember what they were called, but they were "bigger" for more airflow. :)

Not sure what that is/looks like, got pics?

dog_jr911 wrote: after i get the setup, ill clean it all up and start re-wiring things for the new controll unit.

Don't reuse any of the old wires. Buy new rolls of multi colored auto rated wire from FLAPS, you'll need 16 guage for the power wires, and 18 for everything else. Depending on where you mount everything, one roll of each color should be enough (I mounted mine where the rear seat would be)

dog_jr911 wrote: anyone have a link for the MS unit?

SEARCH. There are many retailers, I recommend DIY Autotune. Remember, if you don't get an MS2, get the flyback board along with the MS1. You need it to drive low impedance injectors.

Tue Dec 04, 2007 11:51 pm

ill grab everything but the computer then. ill take pics as soon as i get back from reno.

as far as the EFI brain goes, im just looking for something thats simple i guess... i have no knowledge on what different types of brains are availible to me, nor the advantages/disadvantages to each one. as far as programming them goes.. thats something that i would download from someone else and tweak to my engine. :D

Wed Dec 05, 2007 1:53 am

dog_jr911 wrote: as far as the EFI brain goes, im just looking for something thats simple i guess... i have no knowledge on what different types of brains are availible to me, nor the advantages/disadvantages to each one. as far as programming them goes.. thats something that i would download from someone else and tweak to my engine. :D

That being the case, I would say your best bet for a ready to use MS is THIS ASSEMBLED MS1 V3. If you don't want to build your own wiring harness, you will also need THIS CABLE and THIS RELAY BOARD. The cost is a little higher for the prebuilt units than if you had assembled it yourself, but if you don't want the hassle, it's a good choice. Also, as far as downloading a map, and tailoring it to your engine-why? MS has a generic map loaded into already; I started and broke my engine in without changing anything in the fuel or advance tables. :wink:

Oh, and 40PPH injectors should be plenty. As for what laptop to use, just find an old pentium laptop that has a serial port on it. I got one at a flea market fot like $40. You don't need much power to tune MS; as long as it can boot WIN 95, you're good to go.

Wed Dec 05, 2007 12:15 pm

alright im at the shop... theres two different styles i have to choose from, and i want to grab the right one!

should i grab type 1 or type 4 system? ill be here for a few hours... so post up everything that i should grab.

just let me know what parts to grab!

do i need the airflow sensor box? or the coldstart system? am i just grabbing everything from the throttle body down?

if you know the names and models for the parts i should pick up, i can grab it easily! :D

Wed Dec 05, 2007 12:39 pm

If they'll let you, grab both systems.

Wed Dec 05, 2007 1:24 pm

well, everthing just makes sense now for some reason lol!

ill use the endcastings with the injectors, grab the bus style throttle body, and use a dual port center manifold. im going to chop the top of the manifold off, and adapt it to the throttle body.

MS uses all its own sensors correct? are there any manifold vacuume sensors, or boost sensors that i could run off of the little manifold vacuume advance port? theres two big bosses that i could drill and tap above or below the throttle body-if thats needed.

Wed Dec 05, 2007 7:03 pm

heres some pics of the goodies!

here is the larger of the 2 intakes i picked up.

notice how the bottom is dished? thats the only "problem" that i have. a lil fabrication will fix that! :wink:

smaller intake

i only grabbed this one in case the larger one wont work out.

clockwise from top- fuel injectors, cold-start pump (who knows!), full-throttle switch sensor (? i think. just grabbed it), cylinder head temp sender that bolts onto the head.

from this you can kinda see how its going to be fabbed up.

any ideas, thoughts, comments, or concerns are greatly appreciated! :D

Wed Dec 05, 2007 9:55 pm

wait.. the MS system can simply be soldered together with what modules you want? :D

theres a reason i took robotics for 2 years.....

if i were to assemble it all myself, what modules would i need? i plan on locking out the dizzy..... :cry:
i just dont know whats needed for the EFI to run. ive gotten most of the turbo squared away, and im starting to fab the intake.

going to look for GM 40lb injectors tomorrow. [-o<

Thu Dec 06, 2007 2:24 pm

does it matter what impedance the injectors are?

Fri Dec 07, 2007 1:00 am

looks like im alone on this project.. :lol:

:?

Fri Dec 07, 2007 9:37 am

dog_jr911 wrote: looks like im alone on this project.. :lol:

:?

Instead of asking a buttload of all kinds of different question and confusing everyone, I suggest you GET ON THE B&G AND MSEFI.COM SITES AND READ! :wink:
MS is a DIY project after all, and it's up to you in the end to see it through to fruition. I like helping people out, I really do, but asking questions like what injectors to use, and all these other MS related question have their own place to be asked. When it comes to VW specific question, ask here, and when it come to MS, ask HERE. :wink:

What was your question? :?

Fri Dec 07, 2007 11:23 am

miniman82 wrote: What was your question?

what are the diffferent sensors that i need, and can any of them be found in a junkyard.

-if so, what kind of vehicles could i scavange for these parts?

Fri Dec 07, 2007 12:31 pm

air temp, map sensor, throttle position sensor... normally you would have water temp too, but not here... you will need a reference sensor too, either off of a distributer or off of the crank pulley. That is the only sort of tricky part to putting EFI on one of these motors.

The MS site should have a pretty detailed list of what all you will need. And Miniman looks to have a pretty detailed thread as well.

Fri Dec 07, 2007 12:48 pm

so ill grab

http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/megasquirt-stimulator-unassembled-p-30.html

and

http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/megasquirtii-engine-management-system-wpcb3-unassembled-p-59.html

i dont need any "add ons" or "mods" correct?

:D

the relay boards are outta stock.. so ill order one later.

now the MAP sensor- i believe it has a hose that attaches anywhere to the intake manifold, but thats after the throttle body, correct?

air temp is inside the manifold as well, i know that.

doesnt the ignition sensor plug onto one side of the coil? like a tach?

thanks... asking more realistic questions... :D

Fri Dec 07, 2007 1:49 pm

dog_jr911 wrote: so ill grab

http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/megasquirt-stimulator-unassembled-p-30.html

and

http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/megasquirtii-engine-management-system-wpcb3-unassembled-p-59.html

i dont need any "add ons" or "mods" correct?

:D

If you intend to assemble and test MS yourself, that's what you want. Remember-those are bare kits, you must solder everything together.

dog_jr911 wrote: the relay boards are outta stock.. so ill order one later.

Hmmm, try glen's garage, they might have some. There are many more vendors, and MS stuff pops up on ebay from time to time as well.

dog_jr911 wrote: now the MAP sensor- i believe it has a hose that attaches anywhere to the intake manifold, but thats after the throttle body, correct?[quote

air temp is inside the manifold as well, i know that.

doesnt the ignition sensor plug onto one side of the coil? like a tach?

thanks... asking more realistic questions... :D

As I said, if you have MS questions either read the megamanual, or post questions on www.msefi.com. It's better this way, so a bunch of info that doesn't pretain to VW's doesn't get posted here. For example, your questions about sensors and whatnot could have been answered in 10 seconds if you had just gone HERE and done some reading. In the future, I will not answer any MS questions here, only questions that relate to VW's.