TheSamba.com :: View topic - Rebuilding wbxer questions -attn tencent

Wed Jan 02, 2008 7:19 pm

I removed some 1.9 head studs by locking two nuts together. They all came out without too much trouble. I think I may have used a propane torche on some but not on all of them.

Wed Jan 02, 2008 9:59 pm

I have removed over 5 hundred WBX head studs, 1.9s are sometimes a pita, the 2.1 very seldom need heat to get them out. The 1.9 are about a 50/50 chance. Rocky

Thu Jan 03, 2008 6:02 am

Since were on the subject, how tight do you put the new head studs on a 1.9? I can't seem to find a torque spec for that. Do you use threadlocker?

Thu Jan 03, 2008 7:53 am

Hey, Rocky! Welcome to the Samba.

Sat Jan 05, 2008 5:12 pm

I was able to remove the heads/cylinders today. They came out together. The cylinders were completely fused to the heads. That was a fun job.

So more questions:

Lifters, do they generally need replacing? Is it possible to tell if they're going bad? For the price would you go ahead and change them on a 240k motor?

Whoever serviced the heads the last time put an incredible amount of the sealant around the head gaskets. One of the water jackets was filled with it. I'm guessing it doesn't require that much.

I wasn't thinking as I took the cylinders off and didn't mark them. If I'm going to hone them does it matter if I put them on differently?

Last one, any advice before I split the case? I've never done one, do they generally come apart easily?

Thanks

DAVID
It's January, where is my wbxer porn??

Sat Jan 05, 2008 6:36 pm

Best to keep the cylinders and pistons indexed. However, if you are reringing and honing the jugs it's less important so long as they check out round and no taper. You should take them to an experienced machinist, pistons too, to do these measurements for you as they require some instruments I'm sure you don't have and plenty of experience to use them correctly.

Cams and lifters get replaced together. They wear to match and where they meet is critical. With 240k I can assure you you will need a new cam, so new lifters are in your future as well. It is practical, however, to regrind the lifter faces so long as you carefully rebuild and clean each lifter afterwards to get machining waste out of them. They have to be done one by one with the parts never being mixed between individual lifters, and I would only go that route if it was a low-mileage set that was known to work well. Rebuilding will only clean them out; it won't renew the fit of the internals and there are some very tight tolerances in there. But a new set is just over $100 so that much labor may not be worthwhile. Regrinding them also requires using a new or reground cam. It's my belief that regrinding cams is foolhardy as the resulting smaller base circle will accelerate cam and lifter wear afterwards.

When sealing the heads it requires very little sealant. Excess will squish out and harden into beads that can tear off and circulate internally, as it sounds like you've seen. When you do the water jacket seals make sure to seal both sides of the chanel gasket, not just the outer face as shwn in the book. Just put a thin continuous bead on the end face of the cae water jackets first, then fit up the seals and do the same on the seal faces like the book shows.

The case halves can be hard to separate. Remember they are basically glued together. Prying the flywheel seal out first will make separating the case a bit easier. Make sure you have every fastener off first. There are a couple points where you can lever against protrusions around the outer seam. Once the seal is broken they come apart pretty easily. Remove and index all your lifters first, remove the diz driveshaft and its two thrust washers underneath if the diz is out because they will rise if you rotate the crank and catch in the spiral gear and chew it up.

Sorry, the only wbx porn this month is the exhaust porn. If that doesn't give you a stiffy you'll have to content yourself with the past issues.

Mon Jan 07, 2008 6:13 pm

Thanks tencent. I am going to hone the cylinders and put new rings on, but I was able to remember which cylinder went where.

I'm going with a new cam so new lifters as well. They make nice paper weights.

I should be able to get the case in the parts vat for a soak before the weekend. I've got some time before parts start coming in and wanted to start making things pretty. Sandblast the nasty looking intake and paint it. Do you have any suggestions for a slight gloss black paint that will hold up well in heat? I'd like to hit some of the water pipes as well.

I didn't realize it at the time but when I removed the motor the oil filler pipe with the black plastic end was broken. The plastic cracked. Anyone know if I can order the plastic by itself, or is it sold as a unit? I looked at vancafe's site and it seems they list one that is syncro only. How could it be different from a 2 wd???
Thanks

Mon Jan 07, 2008 9:43 pm

The Syncro filler tube is slightly longer, but that's at the steel portion. The plastic extendable filler should be the same. Sounds like they come as a unit. I know Terry K on here has new ones for sale for under $40. Check in the Vanagon parts classified section if you're interested in purchasing one from him.

How do your head sealing surfaces look? Are they badly pitted or fairly clean?

I'm working on getting your wbx porn up this week. I tried to upload the photos to the gallery section but they were too big. I need to find a program to resize them.

David

Mon Jan 07, 2008 9:48 pm

Found it. Van-Cafe does stock it. I did a search for oil filler, and this came up.

http://www.van-cafe.com/vanagon_parts.jsp?pa=p&p=1611886163&ct=691978171

David

Tue Jan 08, 2008 9:29 am

D Clymer wrote:

I'm working on getting your wbx porn up this week. I tried to upload the photos to the gallery section but they were too big. I need to find a program to resize them.

David
I use FastStone viewer that has a resizer built in but there's a standalone resizer as well.
http://www.faststone.org/

Tue Jan 08, 2008 10:51 pm

Waldemar Sikorski wrote:
I use FastStone viewer that has a resizer built in but there's a standalone resizer as well.
http://www.faststone.org/

Thanks, Waldemar. I downloaded FastStone and it worked great. My photos are now loaded.

David

Wed Jan 09, 2008 9:14 am

Wow, David, where are you getting these parts?

Sat Jan 19, 2008 2:55 pm

Split the case today and gave it a good hot dip and now it's purty!

Everything looks great. I'm going to order the rods from van-cafe and do new main bearings, rod bearings and cam bearings. Hone the cylinders, clean carbon off the pistons and get new rings. The wrist pins have two discolored bans where they attached to the rods. There is no change in the metal surface, just coloration. Any cause for alarm?

The cam had no pitting whatsoever on the lobes so I'm going to reuse it. I assume it is fine to reuse with new lifters?

I should be able to get access to a Bentley before next weekend. Does it detail or provide a good exploded view of the engine? It would be nice to have a visual indicator so I don't miss any small seals etc..

Is it generally a bad idea to use anything that could abrade the mating surfaces of the case halves?? Scotchbrite?

Last one, someone recommended using nylocks on the case when I put it back together. Necessary???

Sat Jan 19, 2008 7:36 pm

The brownish bands on the pins are normal, nothing to worry about.

If cam has no pitting, it's likely good to go, but you should have your machinist check it for taper and even lift, or if you had two V-blocks and a dial indicator you could do it yourself.

You could reuse the lifters only if you kept them indexed to the cam, and if they were working OK you could hand clean them and probably do allright. OLd cam, old lifters. New cam, new lifters, as far as the friction mating surfaces goes.

Skotchbrite is fine on the crankcase mating surfaces. Best to get them very clean.

Nylocks are nice, but not necessary, if you'll pardon my alliteration.

Sat Jan 19, 2008 7:48 pm

tencentlife wrote: The brownish bands on the pins are normal, nothing to worry about.

If cam has no pitting, it's likely good to go, but you should have your machinist check it for taper and even lift, or if you had two V-blocks and a dial indicator you could do it yourself.

You could reuse the lifters only if you kept them indexed to the cam, and if they were working OK you could hand clean them and probably do allright. OLd cam, old lifters. New cam, new lifters, as far as the mating surfaces goes.

Skotchbrite is fine on the mating surfaces. Best to get them very clean.

Nylocks are nice, but not necessary, if you'll pardon my alliteration.

Just to make sure I understand you. Can I use the old cam with new lifters? Cam contact with crusty lifters could be bad? Sorry, that is the best I could do for a follow up. I did not, unfortunately, index them so I will buy new ones for sure.

Thanks again

Sat Jan 19, 2008 8:35 pm

I think new lifters would be fine so long as the taper on the cam lobes isn't extreme.

Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:11 pm

Hey $.10life - I've looked at your better waterboxer page - looks great - any thoughts about doing the same type of improvements to a diesel engine - I'm sure that there are a great many of us who would really like to replace (when necessary) our engines with a modern rebuilt diesel that would be reliable, have good power and we could then burn bio-diesel.
JC

Mon Jan 21, 2008 7:00 pm

Thanks for the nice compliment, J.

I used to work on loads of Mercedes diesels but I'm no expert, for sure. I don't think you can approach diesels the same way you can gasoline engines; the engine is largely maximised as designed. Adding turbocharging is one way to boost power from a diesel, of course, and most will tolerate that well, but that's old hat by now.

I'm very into alt-fuels, though, so one of the end goals of what I'm doing is to make high-CR wbx's that will run well on high-ethanol blends and/or LP, but going there right now would be fairly pointless because ethanol just isn't available in enough locations to make that worthwhile. As E85 becomes more ubiquitous, though, look for me to be driving an alcohol-fueled Vanagon. I know all about the poor energy balance of distilling from corn, but that's just temporary; alcohols from other feedstocks will take over the market after a few years and I do think it will be one of a variety of biofuels that will be on offer.

Tha is unless that new boxer diesel from Subaru comes to our shores and people wreck enough cars soon enough that I can pick up a motor for a decent price.

Tue Jan 22, 2008 8:55 am

J Charlton wrote: Hey $.10life - I've looked at your better waterboxer page - looks great - any thoughts about doing the same type of improvements to a diesel engine - I'm sure that there are a great many of us who would really like to replace (when necessary) our engines with a modern rebuilt diesel that would be reliable, have good power and we could then burn bio-diesel.
JC

If you are looking to boost your 1.6 or 1.6turbo diesel engines I can mention that the Volkswagen 1.9 and 2.0 diesel engines bolt right on your gearbox as the engineblock is basicly the same. The problem is that upgrading to a newer dieselengine will tear down your gearbox it cannot handle all that torque. Also you cannot have the enginelit on as the TDI's are taller engines.

/Mads

BTW.: you should make a new thread about it if you want more info

Fri Jan 25, 2008 1:30 pm

Rebuilt rods, studs, gasket set, lifters etc all arrived today. Can't wait to get at it tomorrow.

I have someone with experience building type 1 motors that is going to be helping me along with a bentley manual.

I want to double check:
Rod bolts (rebuilts from van-cafe) recommended torque specs?

Crankshaft and camshaft- do they align with the dots similar to a type 1?

I've never installed main bearings in a bottom end. It looks pretty straightforward, anything to watch out for?

Thanks