TheSamba.com :: View topic - October 53

Tue Feb 05, 2008 10:51 am

^^^^^^^^^

DITTO!!

Tue Feb 05, 2008 7:38 pm

Ok, here is what I have on these fuel taps.....

First of all, understand there are basically 2 kinds of these taps. The later one has the 6mm outlet pipe, the early one has the 8mm outlet (both with the filter bowl beneath them), and there are other differences between them. These early ones require the little pronged tool shown earlier (I had already made one years ago by modifying the end of an 11mm, deep 3/8 drive socket.

Well after spending time taking about 5 of these things apart (yes, I have at least 5, forgot I had been hoarding them all these years!) I found one with an original gasket inside. Trying to extract it with a variety of dental pics, I ended up destroying it. It is absolutely rock hard (THAT is the reason that an "NOS" fuel tap means nothing. 50+ year old rubber is worthless... plan on replacing any that you buy). So once I had it out and noticed that it was not round, I went about trying to make a quick one.

I rough cut one out of rubber, and used a 1/8 hollow hole punch. It seemed to work. There are "lobes" at the bottom of th cavity that keep the gasket from spinning when you turn the tap. They have 4 holes in them, but only 3 are used. Thus, you can put it in any way you want, and it will still work. I went so far as to flat-side a piece of 19mm steel tubing and bevel the edges to make a punch that might punch out the rounded box shape. It was just to see if such a thing could work, and it did.

I went down to my part shelves to see if I had any more early taps and went through one of my boxes of fuel related parts that I got years ago with an old dealer stash. And guess what I found?

Yep, four NOS early tap gaskets! Of course they are rock hard, but at least I know what the originals look like. You can see the lobes on the corners. (Click on the pic below, its big). You can see the crude punch tool I made also.

The side to side dimension of these NOS ones is 18.70mm, basically the exact diameter of the "foot" of the rotating rod. The corner to corner dimension is 21.80mm. Thickness is 3.18mm and diameter of the holes is 4mm.

Anyway, I surfed at McMaster and found some materials that I think will work for these taps. I am going to refine the outline punch a bit, and make a few of them.

Below is a paste of the materials I found, the McMaster part numbers, prices and specs. Viton rubber is very fuel resistant and shore (A) 75 hardness (like shoe sole rubber) so it seems right. I think this was a very hard rubber when it was new anyway.

The brass inlet tubing is 4mm, they have that as well as what looks like a perfect filter bowl rubber O-ring. Will get a 3.90mm drill bit to drill out the old brass tubes and press fit new one. I may be able to make up a few repair kits for sale, I have a few NOS filters and tap/tank gaskets. Note that the union nut is the same as the ones on the later taps.

Fuel bowl ring

Part Number: 4061T165
$10.58 per Pack of 100
AS568A Dash Number 119
Type O-Ring
O-Ring Type Standard
Cross Section Shape Square
Width 3/32"
Actual Width .103"
Inside Diameter 15/16"
Actual Inside Diameter .924"
Outside Diameter 1-1/8"
Actual Outside Diameter 1.130"
Material Buna-N
Buna-N Type Standard
Durometer Hard
Durometer Shore Shore A: 70
Temperature Range -20° to +225°F
Color Black
Specifications Met Not Rated

Gasket Rubber

Part Number: 86075K24
$15.66 Each
Material Type Viton Rubber
Shape Sheets, Bars, and Strips
Backing No Backing
Thickness 1/8"
Thickness Tolerance ±0.020"
Length 6"
Length Tolerance ±3/16"
Width 6"
Width Tolerance ±3/16"
Durometer Hard
Durometer Rating 75A
Durometer Hardness Tolerance ±5
Temperature Range -20° to +400° F
Cut With Scissors or Shears
Tensile Strength 1000 psi
Stretch Limit 225%
Density 97 lbs./cu. ft.
Compression Recovery Excellent
Color Black
Finish Smooth on Both Sides
Tolerance Standard
Specifications Met Not Rated
Properties Oil Resistant, Abrasion Resistant, Weather Resistant, Chemical Resistant, Electrical Resistant, Flame Resistant

Brass tubing

Part Number: 88605K23
$16.50 per Pack of 12
Material Brass Alloy 260
Shape Structural Tubes
Structural Tube Type Plain Round
Structural Tube Tolerance Standard
Outside Dia. 4 mm
Outside Dia. Tolerance ± .002"
Inside Dia. 3.1 mm
Inside Dia. Tolerance ± .002"
Wall Thickness .45 mm
Wall Thickness Tolerance ±.001"
Straightness Tolerance 1/2"
Metal Finish Unpolished (Mill)
Metal Bendability Not Bendable
Rockwell Not Rated
Temper Half-Hard H02 - 3/4 Hard H03
Yield Strength 9,000 to 13,000 psi
Metal Flareability Not Flareable
Specifications Met American Society for Testing and Materials (ASTM)
ASTM Specification ASTM B587 or B135
Length 300 mm
Length Tolerance ± 1/16"
WARNING Cannot be heat treated.

Tue Feb 05, 2008 8:12 pm

Damn John, very nice work there. I had looked at using Buna N for the fuel tap gasket but if you think that the Vitron is better I will check into that. The shape of the gasket is what I expected it to look like but I wasn't expecting there to be four holes, it does make sense though. I was planning on making a punch at work to stamp mine out. Got another question, you called the nut that holds the fuel tap to the gas tank a union nut so I assume it should be able to spin freely on the fuel tap? Once again I want to thank you for taking the time to do this.

Joey

Tue Feb 05, 2008 8:30 pm

scvw wrote: Damn John, very nice work there. I had looked at using Buna N for the fuel tap gasket but if you think that the Vitron is better I will check into that. The shape of the gasket is what I expected it to look like but I wasn't expecting there to be four holes, it does make sense though. I was planning on making a punch at work to stamp mine out. Got another question, you called the nut that holds the fuel tap to the gas tank a union nut so I assume it should be able to spin freely on the fuel tap? Once again I want to thank you for taking the time to do this.

Joey

Yes, the union nut will spin right off the tap, and I thin it is it reverse threaded on the tap side. Very often those aluminum pieces get stuck. I have a couple munged up ones, I think I should be able to make about 3 really nice taps though...

Post a pic of the punch you make if you do make one....

Tue Feb 05, 2008 8:40 pm

johnshenry wrote: scvw wrote: Damn John, very nice work there. I had looked at using Buna N for the fuel tap gasket but if you think that the Vitron is better I will check into that. The shape of the gasket is what I expected it to look like but I wasn't expecting there to be four holes, it does make sense though. I was planning on making a punch at work to stamp mine out. Got another question, you called the nut that holds the fuel tap to the gas tank a union nut so I assume it should be able to spin freely on the fuel tap? Once again I want to thank you for taking the time to do this.

Joey

Yes, the union nut will spin right off the tap, and I thin it is it reverse threaded on the tap side. Very often those aluminum pieces get stuck. I have a couple munged up ones, I think I should be able to make about 3 really nice taps though...

Post a pic of the punch you make if you do make one....

I had wondered if the nut should spin so that the tap would be positioned properly for the reserve lever.

I will try and make the punch over the weekend and post up a pic of it.

Joey

Wed Feb 06, 2008 7:26 pm

Well I messed around after work tonight and made my fuel tap gasket punch. The rubber was just some 1/8" thick rubber that we had laying around and was probably in the 30-40 durometer range. I was happy with the size but I should have made the cutting edges sharper. I will sharpen them more this weekend.

Joey

Wed Feb 06, 2008 7:53 pm

Wow.

OK, let on. What do you have that can mill a punch like that? You have access to a high dollar CNC or CAD Mill? That is not something that you "hammer out" in your shop out of old pipe!! :wink:

I was just about to order that Viton rubber tomorrow from McMaster, but I think now I will ask you to punch out a few for me.....!

Seriously, e-mail me at zarwerks@charter.net. You could do well selling those early tap rebuild kits as, we all know, they just don't exist anywhere. Source the filter bowl ring, and maybe the tank gasket and you could make up a nice little kit. AND, you could offer tap restoration services, sourcing the brass tubing, and installing new gaskets, etc. Not everyone will have, or will want to make that little tool to take the collar nut out, dig out the old gasket, etc. Want to be real thorough, develop a little pressure tester outfit to test each one you do..

I have run a hobby/business for almost 5 years now, and I can tell you that these little niches exist; find some little thing that every early car owner will want, figure out the tooling, techniques, materials and you can own it. Personally I have given up some of the "small part" items I used to do as I just don't have the time with job, family etc (so I really have no interest in taking this one up). You obviously have the skills to do it right.

Sooner or later every early oval and split owner will need this type of service....

Wed Feb 06, 2008 10:23 pm

Another cool tool Joey! I'd order a rebuild kit from ya. :wink:

BTW, I plan on trying out my hinge tool this weekend. I'll be sure and post my results.

Thu Feb 07, 2008 4:20 am

johnshenry wrote: Wow.

OK, let on. What do you have that can mill a punch like that? You have access to a high dollar CNC or CAD Mill? That is not something that you "hammer out" in your shop out of old pipe!! :wink:

I was just about to order that Viton rubber tomorrow from McMaster, but I think now I will ask you to punch out a few for me.....!

Seriously, e-mail me at zarwerks@charter.net. You could do well selling those early tap rebuild kits as, we all know, they just don't exist anywhere. Source the filter bowl ring, and maybe the tank gasket and you could make up a nice little kit. AND, you could offer tap restoration services, sourcing the brass tubing, and installing new gaskets, etc. Not everyone will have, or will want to make that little tool to take the collar nut out, dig out the old gasket, etc. Want to be real thorough, develop a little pressure tester outfit to test each one you do..

I have run a hobby/business for almost 5 years now, and I can tell you that these little niches exist; find some little thing that every early car owner will want, figure out the tooling, techniques, materials and you can own it. Personally I have given up some of the "small part" items I used to do as I just don't have the time with job, family etc (so I really have no interest in taking this one up). You obviously have the skills to do it right.

Sooner or later every early oval and split owner will need this type of service....

Hey John,
You've got mail.
Well by day I am a job shop machinist and have been for the past 24 years. I didn't get into VW's with the intent of making things, it's just that I need something for myself and it turns out that other people need the same thing. :D

The rebuild kits sound interesting, I will check into that. If anybody might need one or need me to work on theirs send me a PM/email and I will see how much interest there is.

Thanks again John!

Joey

Thu Feb 07, 2008 4:21 am

joe h. wrote: Another cool tool Joey! I'd order a rebuild kit from ya. :wink:

BTW, I plan on trying out my hinge tool this weekend. I'll be sure and post my results.

Hey Joe,

We will talk. Let me know how it goes this weekend with the tool.

Thanks,

Joey

Thu Feb 07, 2008 8:19 am

I've got a 56 oval and I'm not that far along yet, but if it's similar, I'd prob need one too, I'll try and take mine out today and check it.

Thu Feb 07, 2008 5:22 pm

A little bit back on subject. I got my birth certificate the other week and guess what? Looks like I am going to have to change from the September '53 to the October '53 club. When I got the car I misunderstood how the VIN chart worked in the Techinal section. :oops:

It didn't really tell me anything that I didn't already know. Except for the date.

Hey Bob, looks like I can join you know. What is your production date?

Joey

Thu Feb 07, 2008 6:09 pm

Nice oval! keep up the work.

Thu Feb 07, 2008 7:11 pm

I'll have to go check, but I can tell you that my ID serial# is 1-0541532. I carry that in my wallet...... :D

Wait, that seems like too many numbers............ :?

No, maybe not............

Back soon.

Thu Feb 07, 2008 7:58 pm

Well, it not where I thought it was. I'll check the garage this weekend.

Sat Feb 09, 2008 3:36 pm

Sweet baby Jesus. :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

I got it fired up today and it purred like a kitten. :D :D :D :D :D :D

I am sooooooooo stoked right now. :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Thanks to every body for the advice on getting it started. I had to connect the coil straight off the battery so I will have to track that down but damn I am happy.

Joey

Sat Feb 09, 2008 3:51 pm

Way to go Joey........ 8)

Sat Feb 09, 2008 9:13 pm

Hey Joey,

Super congratulations, that is one good feeling to get something running, showing the bug your Love is starting to pay off.

One day you'll be driving around Grinning from ear to ear! :D

Sun Feb 10, 2008 6:42 pm

Saw this car up close today.
outstanding peice with nearly zero rust
reminded me of antique furniture but drivable.
This guy is probably the most capable VW owner I have ever met.
I hope he intends to drive it alot,as I will be calling him out for some putting around this summer.
Nice car Joey, you deserve it.
BTW the ford starter solenoid was bad on my car today,I just finished installing a new 6V I had laying around.

Sun Feb 10, 2008 7:19 pm

MODIFIER wrote: Saw this car up close today.
outstanding peice with nearly zero rust
reminded me of antique furniture but drivable.
This guy is probably the most capable VW owner I have ever met.
I hope he intends to drive it alot,as I will be calling him out for some putting around this summer.
Nice car Joey, you deserve it.
BTW the ford starter solenoid was bad on my car today,I just finished installing a new 6V I had laying around.

Hey Steve,

I'm glad that you cruised on over today and that you got the starter straightened out that quick. You can bet that I am looking forward to us putting alot of miles on them this summer. No highway traveling though, right. :wink:

Joey