TheSamba.com :: View topic

Thu Dec 09, 2004 11:43 pm

i dont see why most split bus people think 68 and up buses and bugs are garbage... they are aircooled vw's too, just a younger generation. i love ALL AIRCOOLED VW'S because they are still aircooled vw's and not some cheap, water pumping piece of plastic junk. i started an online vw club a while back, that, even water pumping dubs can join.

http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/vw_buses/

anyone that wants to join, please do so, its free. you do have to have a yahoo mail account tho, but that too, is free.

split buses have their own style, bay buses have their own style, same with the bugs, but, in the end, they are more alike than different. a dub is a dub in my book, and id love to own them all.

except the water pumpers. :wink:

Fri Dec 10, 2004 3:40 am

i'm not sure what's worse - people feeling excluded or those who exclude - based upon a time their transportation came off an assembly line. i'm thinking the notion goes against the philosophy and needs of the people in the peoples' car; and with that some are hoping to join a crowd of imitators that are taking target practice on their own collective foot. are we no longer getting from point A to Z on four cylinders, w/o the [for better or worse] damn dealerships? do we even need a trophy for that?

equally confusing is why people feel the need to enter vdubs in shows at all. yahoo for more competition? do we all need to be intimidated into getting hazet hightops now ...to belong? is the bay window bus responsible for watering down the transporter ideal? bwah. consider what is a beauty contest - a sorority in heels. and if it comes down to splits vs. bays who among them vintage faction fashion freaks are too good to ride a mile in my bus. at that point lettem have the mags and trophies. lettem have green bug girl. imo, those who strive for inclusion are driving toward isolation. factor out any vintage snobs, be grateful for what we got and that's a lot. take comfort that the hobby lives on earth and is not predicated upon a fancy party in a vintage this vintage that whirlpool world. its about getting to work, groceries, our children, and pissin on the man and his dumb ass new ford generica post modern K car :!:

Fri Dec 10, 2004 6:20 am

I think the bay window haters are starting to fade away more than in the past. It is like the Super beetle guys, it was a departure away from something familiar, the struts were a slap in the face to Porsches Torsion assembly, the bay was a slap to the splitties face, the 411 was just forgotten :) Unfortuately ..... succession's a bit*h

The neat part is a lot of older guys hate our cars, yet want to use our upgraded brakes, suspention, etc etc :) You can't have it both ways !!

When I was a beetle guy i said " pfft Superbeetles "
When I was a Bus guy ( and still am ), I said pfft Beetles.
When I was a T3 guy, I again said pffft Beetles :)

Being excluded has it's priviledges, people aren't trying to steal your bus, you can use it for it's main purpose, daily driving and not trailered, I don't worry about the paint like I did on my restored 74 beetle, insurance is cheap and there isn't one kid out there that doesn't smile, wave or think it's the coolest thing on the road. You won't get that in a Wasservan because they are modern looking :)

My daughter keeps asking me to get into "Daddy's green van" and take her down to the beach, smile from ear to ear and she's only 2 ! You can't teach that kind of affinity to a product, it must be the design

I am tired of the peace sign however, people thinking you have pot stashed away in the van :) How many hippies were roaming around in the late 70's ?? :) I was 10 when my bus was made .....

To have fun, drive a bay, to cruise and be overly cautious, get a nice Splittie :) I'd still love to have a splittie as well as my bay though ....

We're all one big happy aircooled family, we just hate each other like brothers and sisters :) But at the end of the day, we'd stop to help out a fellow air coooled if we passed on on the road, right ?? maybe even a vanagon ( just kidding guys, I'd stop. Most of them owned a splittie / bay / etc ! )

Don't worry about not fitting in, as was said, there are advantages to not being with the 'in' crowd, we're a niche market

Now, you want to be ostracized, try putting a wasser into a aircooled bay, that opens up a can of worms .... I know, I'm doing it to mine to be different ... :) even though Mexico built them this way for years ....

Enjoy your bus, our day in the sun will come, mostly driven my supply / demand. Your ok bus will be a collector as time goes on, mine's a rust collector .... by then, maybe we'll all be chasing down the 411/412, or gulp, maybe a Dasher ? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Fri Dec 10, 2004 7:01 am

I agree - there seems to be a certain level of snottiness with the split buses.

I owned a 66 and while it was very cool looking I much prefer a bay, specifically an early bay, more specifically 71s. New and used parts are so much cheaper, many more parts buses to pick from. I could go on and on about the advantages of bays.

But the only advantage of a split is how they look.

Seriously. What's the big difference between a 67 and 68? Really not a ton except how it looks (I know there are quite a few differences but they really are minor compared to the body change).

Fri Dec 10, 2004 7:31 am

Hey Static
I live in SF and have been looking for a local club for bays. Kinda strange that the bay area doesn't have a "Bay club". I've only seen splitty clubs. I feel when one thinks about the "Hipppy bus" they think splitty. But I feel the more modern (68 on up) Hippy drives a Bay.... Anyways if your interested I'd like to volunteer a little bit of my time to starting a bay area bay club. Ya know something like "Bays from the Bay". Hey I kinda like that. The "Buses by the Bridge" in Lake Havesu is coming up in Jan (1/15/2005). You should try and make it. Let me know if your interested in looking to organize something.

HIPPO

Fri Dec 10, 2004 7:36 am

Don't worry. By the looks of things, it won't be long before most of the splits are bought up by the English soon. :D

I wonder if, as Breeze said, it's more of a regional thing?
Both versions of the van are rare out here in the east and, though , I haven't been to many events, I haven't personally heard of any animosity.
I guess we're all just happy to see ANY ACVW here in the rust belt.

Now the H2Os, that's another matter.

Seperate events for those please. :lol:

Fri Dec 10, 2004 8:08 am

speaking regionally, people here that are outside the hobby don't seem to even notice the differences...which frustrates me (as a superior splitty bus owner, i demand to be noticed)...to most, they are all old crappy slow busses, even if they aren't...they are...and yeah, kids think they are the coolest...

people inside the hobby are cool with the differences...

another advantage to a split....they are stupid simple, thus you can be dumber and keep a split running...that's me :)...the hardest part about splits is collecting all the original parts that it is supposed to have (not much different than collecting beanie babies)...

in the past, split's seemed like they were more worthy of the time required to restore because of their rarity, but i think that is all changing...i think magazines will start to show bay resto's because bay restos are finally starting to make sense, especially early bays (in less than a month, 1970 will be 35 year ago!)...

Fri Dec 10, 2004 8:21 am

Fort Collins. Hey, what time is it? :D

You make a good point. Non-Veedubbers just hate getting stuck behind ANY air-cooled VW. I guess there'll always be elitism in any group, but I'm not sure age of vehicle alone is justification.

It seems silly to me. I'm just happy to know there ARE 40 year old vehicles out there.

Fri Dec 10, 2004 8:35 am

I love splitties (who doesn't) but even if I got like a Medical Degree or something and could afford one, I'd keep my '69!
I get pretty sick of the magazines, too, not catering to what's really out there.
...What's really out there are a lot of bays that people want to drive.
Not all VW's are lowered and painted pink yet. Although, in maybe five years when they are, I figure mine will be worth more because it's basically stock. I won't even hop up my engine because going slow is part of the charm.
Sorry, if I wandered off topic.

Fri Dec 10, 2004 8:55 am

Well I have never felt left out because of my baywindow, but then again I don't think I have ever seen any of the VW Mags that people talk about. At the few VW shows I have been to, I have always felt good and enjoyed talking with everyone. I have even been known to enjoy snooping around a Vanagons a little bit to see whow they work and most of those folks are super nice also.

You know something, I think they are all pretty interesting and have personally had most of them - the beetles, bayindows, supers, splittys, gias, and type 3s. Now if I could just get that Double cab pickup I so lust after. :shock:

I like to look at them all and to meet and talk with the owners as well. They are what most new cars today are not and that is "interesting". Most of the owners are pretty intersting also and that includes other vehicles of all sorts from Jeeps to Saabs to Beemers to Packards.

I can't deal with Saturns though. The equivalent of wearing sweat pants as your "sunday best". They don't pass the "intersting test". Snoozers. Iam trying to get over it, but it is difficult.

Fri Dec 10, 2004 9:34 am

Randy in Maine wrote: Now if I could just get that Double cab pickup I so lust after. :shock:

Yeah! A pickup! -Hippie need truck, too! =P~

Fri Dec 10, 2004 9:36 am

The weird thing is, a 68' bus is already 36 years old...that's vintage in my book. I can maybe see getting snotty a bit about a 79', they haven't aged enough yet! But soon. I'm just waiting for the day when we can get the flying car mod for our VWs....I don't know about the rest of you, but I've always felt like I'm flying in a plane when I drive a bus or bug.
Hey, how many vehicles that are almost 40 years old can you trust in the middle of nowhere? Preaching to the choir I guess...

Fri Dec 10, 2004 9:49 am

Splitties/Bays are like 356/912s or MGA/MGBs. The oldies aren't any better, but are more fashionable. Owners of the earlier models love to upgrade with later parts, but won't admit it. :lol:

Fri Dec 10, 2004 10:35 am

I have been fortunate enough to drive each of the itinerations of the bus when new. I rode in my parent's '67 21 window from day one, had something like 36 miles on it (that new Volkswagen smell 8) ), and got to drive it sporatically around the driveway loop and at the high school parking lot. Our '69 bus was delivered to us on Christmas morning with 158 miles on the odometer, a gift from my uncle, I remember that first drive to its every last detail.
And I drove my brand new '89 Vanagon GL right off the lot.
In each instance, I had no point of reference but what Volkswagen was trying to accomplish with their people-mover concept. I am still firmly embedded in this perspective. The ?? modifications, the clubs, the drag strips, the snobbery, are utterly meaningless to me.
I have admired the technological development through each itineration. The splittys are tough as nails and the sun roof/windows interiors are completely unique in the annals of motoring, the Bays are one of the very best off-road and cross-country loyal and reliable drivers you'll ever experience and I find a clean bay interior is a beautiful place to hang out, and you have to DRIVE a Vanagon HARD to fully appreciate their magnificent road manners, the view out the windshield is a pleasure in the most horrid weather. I am not going to play Purist For The Sake of Snottiness, I *am* going to claim that any brand new VW split/bay/vanagon ride is superior to the rest, it is based on the experience of quality craftsmanship and engineering. This is what I seek to recreate one small step at a time, with any Volkswagen I happen across. This is what set VWs apart from the rest. This is why I am left cold with a lowered Splitty with 16 coats of lacquered bass boat paint, the choppy ride of a lowered VW is nothing to me. I will happily drive a customer's rust bucket disaster of a tired bus, and if I get an opportunity to restore the shifter to the original tight smooth glide with crisp reverse lock-out, I am giddy, even as I swat the dangling visor away from my face and squiggle to avoid that seat spring. This is my project, to somehow keep alive the craftsmanship and engineering that set these cars apart when they were first introduced. Even the Vanagon blew away the testers at Road and Track who marvelled that they could "actually punt the Vanagon through corners, you'll find your own limits before you find its limits."
Watching these jewels of engineering attempt to withstand the ravages of time, fads, neglect, ignorance, and the coarse creativity of those who don't "get it" can be difficult at times, but it certainly helps to define my mission.
Colin

Fri Dec 10, 2004 11:03 am

metropoj wrote: .... by then, maybe we'll all be chasing down the 411/412, or gulp, maybe a Dasher ? :lol: :lol: :lol:
Hey, if anyone wants a 411/412, I know where there are a couple of them that might be for sale.. :twisted:

Fri Dec 10, 2004 11:25 am

I think you really hit the nail on the head, Colin. I'm completely in favor of vehicle-to-suit-owner, but don't really understand the desire to modify such an elegant and functional design. I've had VWs from a 64' bus to a 88 Fox (yuck...but was fun to drive). I don't agree with current "VW" philosophy (sell crappy unreliable flashy cars to yupsters...and a Winebago van??? WTF???), but their original bulletproof design is incredible. "Hey, let's build something of quality!" is sorely lacking these days....Something spooky happened at VW around 1986, maybe they sold their soul to the devil at the crossroads?
I'm always amazed what a "vintage" vehicle like a bay bus can take, they're like jeeps in the boonies. I've climbed some incredible grades, after spending a weekend camping and fearing I'd not be able to get home again.
Hey, you're like the old-time country docktor, travelling the countryside to tend to sick horses and men! Keep up the good work.

Fri Dec 10, 2004 12:09 pm

I do not understand the hatred of the split-bay bus deal. I shall tell you the difference with people who have a bay vs. those who do not have a bay bus:

Those who have a bay bus don't care if you have one. Simple as that.

I have a '78 and I will keep it until the very end of the road, then it can be passed on to someone else to have for the future.

It's the only thing I have that no one can take away and it will never be replaced with anything more preferable. I almost feel like I'm driving a model A down the road since these nice buses are nearly extinct in my area. There are only a handful of them that remains in my town- cherish your bus, regardless of the year, whether it's a camper, or how many rock chips or other scars she wears on her paint...

Fri Dec 10, 2004 3:35 pm

A Bay is far nicer to drive than a split. I like splits as well but it is rare to see a split that is regularly used with original mechanicals. Seems the owners like 68+ mechanicals.
At the recent Day of the Volkswagen 2004 in Perth Western Australia the Bays were ignored as a Category. All Transporters were in same class from splits to latest 2004 models. A very nice 23 Window Samba won trophy but had $40000 spent on it over 8 years.

Our attitude to Bays is shown on following website-
http://westairmarketing.freeservers.com
or http://gillythevwbus.8k.com

Regards,
Warren

Fri Dec 10, 2004 4:15 pm

Quote: Owners of the earlier models love to upgrade with later parts, but won't admit it. Laughing

hell, ill admit it! ill upgrade as long as vw offered it.

i love my bus very much, id rather die than give her up ( no lie ). i will never get rid of her. i am set on getting her fully restored one day.

i have driven bays, vanagons, etc, but I personally feel that a split bus is the better choice to drive. my first bus was almost a 73 pop top westy fo 800 bucks. they all have their advantages and disadvantages. rita is my daily driver, always will be. if something goes wrong, i do everything i can to fix it, if i cant fix it, i replace the problem part. if i could, i would gladly, without hesitation, drive my rita bus around the world with no worries.

Fri Dec 10, 2004 4:16 pm

I hit 13 shows last year in my split and most of the other split owners I know where at all the shows I was and one guy even went to the east coast in his bus.

Does a bay drive a little better than a split. Sure. Even if you have a bay you have to admit that the split is a much better looking automobile. If you've driven both than I don't need to gop into how each has a different feel and therefore experience.

Checking the numbers of splits sold I doubt they will dry up anytime soon. There are still stories about "I found this bus in a barn" or "this old guy gave me a bus after he saw mine at safeway".

I asked about magazines and feature cars before and was told that there just aren't enough people restoring those models for magazines to shoot. Maybe in the UK there are but that scene really has a low amount of splits.

I say start a club if you want. As a matter of fact I thought you had a Westy www.list that was a camping "club". Did you ever camp?