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Thu Jan 24, 2008 2:09 pm

Greetings
I am restoring a california clipper glass body buggy and Im ready for brake lines. Will 3/16 steel lines seal in the metric wheel and master cylinders? Any input appriciated. [/img]

Thu Jan 24, 2008 2:48 pm

3/16" will work for the line itself, but you will need a flare tool that can make bubble flares. The VW stuff will not accept a double flare as is used on American cars. If you decide to buy the flare tool and do your own lines, look for good quality. You don't want problems with your brakes due to poorly made flares. There are some kits out there that have all the brake lines pre-bent, but you'll still have to shorten the front to back line if you have short wheel base buggy.

Thu Jan 24, 2008 2:48 pm

debs8981 wrote: Greetings
I am restoring a california clipper glass body buggy and Im ready for brake lines. Will 3/16 steel lines seal in the metric wheel and master cylinders? Any input appriciated. [/img]

Yes they will work. You need to either reuse the original fittings or get new replacement Metric Bubble flare fittings and you have to bubble flare the lines NOT double flare. It is generally easier to reuse the original fittings as locating new ones can be difficult. Another option is to get standard 45deg double flare to metric bubble flare adapters.

45 deg double flare

Bubble flare

double to bubble adapter

Thu Jan 24, 2008 4:04 pm

Thanks guys
I just ordered the bubble flairing tool, under twenty bucks,thats probably less than a handfull of adapters!

Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:23 pm

hello,
good to see another Clipper out there.

I bought some brake lines from the local A-zone and bent them to my contours. they carry several different lengths with the bubble ends. even if you are doing yours from scratch, you may want to buy pre flared lines with extra length and cut them down to the correct size. that way you only need to flare one end on each line.

just a thought,
Don W.
fellow Clipper owner

Thu Jan 24, 2008 6:32 pm

We`ve built 2 buggies with standard brake lines? We have a rack of different sizes and lengths that we stock from Lawson products. both buggies have been on the road for about 2 years and have no problems with leaks or brake failures?
Can someone tell me the problems with using double flare?

Thu Jan 24, 2008 8:56 pm

I just ordered a full steel line kit (online) and did a 360 degree turn at back "tee" connector to take up extra length of the main line from master cylinder to back of buggy...

http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=VWC%2D113%2D698%2D996%2DA

$20 -30 for line kit is a lot cheaper than trying to manufacturer all your lines.

And back under buggy body, nobody seesthe way the extra line is taken up....

Dale

Thu Jan 24, 2008 9:02 pm

I was wondering the same thing, Rayth. When I did my Sterling and my current buggy I used off the shelf stuff from the local FLAPS, never mentioned a metric fitting, and I never had a problem (knock wood).

R

Fri Jan 25, 2008 2:28 am

Dale M. wrote: I just ordered a full steel line kit (online) and did a 360 degree turn at back "tee" connector to take up extra length of the main line from master cylinder to back of buggy...

http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=VWC%2D113%2D698%2D996%2DA

$20 -30 for line kit is a lot cheaper than trying to manufacturer all your lines.

And back under buggy body, nobody seesthe way the extra line is taken up....

Dale

25 foot roll of 3/16 steel line costs me $10.00 I reuse the existing fittings. I have ordered the linekits before and find that the lines are too hard and brittle.

Quote: We`ve built 2 buggies with standard brake lines? We have a rack of different sizes and lengths that we stock from Lawson products. both buggies have been on the road for about 2 years and have no problems with leaks or brake failures?
Can someone tell me the problems with using double flare?

The problem with a standard double flare is the amount of contact/sealing surface for the line. As for using standard fittings it is like installing a 7/16 bolt in a 12 mm nut. Will they fit together, yes. Can they handle the proper torque without failing, No. Can you be gauranteed that they will not pull apart under extreme pressure, NO.
Keep in mind the pressures that can be generated when you have to panic stop your car can approach 1200 psi.

Fri Jan 25, 2008 9:30 am

Quote:

25 foot roll of 3/16 steel line costs me $10.00 I reuse the existing fittings. I have ordered the linekits before and find that the lines are too hard and brittle.

But how much time will you invest cutting flaring and fitting lines... Surely your time is worth more than $10....

I had no trouble fitting lines, "hard and brittle" was not issue with kits I have used....

Dale

Fri Jan 25, 2008 10:35 am

I bought a length of 3/16" stainless tube and made my own lines. I also made my own bubble flaring tool that I use in an arbor press. They have been in use for the last 5 years on my sandrail.

Fri Jan 25, 2008 11:00 am

http://tijuanakustoms.com/____Buggy_Project/_____Brakes/_____brakes.html

Fri Jan 25, 2008 1:51 pm

This is better than Chiltons!

Sun Jan 27, 2008 9:35 am

Dale M. wrote: Quote:

25 foot roll of 3/16 steel line costs me $10.00 I reuse the existing fittings. I have ordered the linekits before and find that the lines are too hard and brittle.

But how much time will you invest cutting flaring and fitting lines... Surely your time is worth more than $10....

I had no trouble fitting lines, "hard and brittle" was not issue with kits I have used....

Dale

You are right, time is money. In my case $31.00 per hour. But when this is a hobby and one does not build for resale labour is not an issue to be considered. Besides making up a set of lines takes less time than running 20 minutes to the local FLAPS and 20 minutes back.

Sun Jan 27, 2008 5:18 pm

Its a good thing am retired, Ive been tinkering with this buggy for two years now but the old rust bucket, whats done anyway, looks like new inside and out. I tried to post photos but I guess the resolution is to high. I have some of the more recent photos on flickr.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/11590736@N04/2217497888/

Sun Jan 27, 2008 7:04 pm

Not to change the subject of this thread, but what happened to your shock towers?

Sun Jan 27, 2008 7:40 pm

The towers had worn holes through the glass next to the headlight stands so way back when someone removed the shocks and bent the towers outward away from the body (with a sledge hammer from the looks of it) and rust finished them off. I thought about picking up a new front beam but the heigth of the towers would still be a problem comming in contact with the body so I"ll do without shocks for now.

Sun Jan 27, 2008 8:01 pm

When we did the brakes on our buggy I just used a standard set of brake lines and used the technique of putting some extra turns on the brake line. In the picture you can see that instead of just doing a 90 degree turn out of the master cylinder toward the rear, I did a 630 degree loop the opposite way. There's plenty of room and it actually doesn't look all that bad.

By the way, if you end up having trouble bleeding the brakes (as we did) here is a little trick you can use that works like a charm - if you use the Volvo master cylinder reservoir technique, that is. Just use a large rubber stopper with a hole in it and a air blow gun (pressure turned down to about 5#) and you can pressure bleed the brakes as easy as anything.

Mon Jan 28, 2008 12:41 pm

Thats a neat trick for bleeding. The loop in the line looks ok to. Im curious, did you find lines ready made with bubble flairs or did you use the double flair? I already ordered the bubble flaring tool and went to my local parts store for some tubing and all they had was various sizes of tube with double flair and nuts,no bulk tube. I bought the longest and will practice on the short lines when my tool gets here.

Mon Jan 28, 2008 3:24 pm

I just ordered them from one of the VW suppliers for around $30 a set. I used CIP as I recall. Here's an example - brake line kit

When my son did his 3x3 arm conversion, we went to the local dune buggy shop and picked up lines the right length. They had a whole rack of pre-made lines in about 6 inch increments.

I found it a lot easier to just use the pre-made stuff