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Thu Dec 19, 2002 9:50 pm

Just made the first trip in my "new" '68 Westy and had some interesting moments. The pop top wanted to lift off the bus, especially when the big trucks passed me. Upon arrival at my destination, I checked the fiberglass top and, sure enough, I could lift the front up easily, at least an inch. This loose fit also contributed to a cool draft in the back while I roasted in the front seat. Can anything be done to remedy this situation?

Thu Dec 19, 2002 9:55 pm

I think I remember having seen some 68-73 Westy pop tops with a clamp mounted directly to the front of the roof and the pop top. I always wondered what it was for, I'm guessing it was to solve the problem you're having. I don't know if it was official VW or aftermarket. I have seen quite a few 86-73 Westy pop-tops with them though.

Thu Dec 19, 2002 10:42 pm

My brother's 68 has 2 rubber hold-downs on the front near the corners. They're just like the hold-downs on the inside. His top is secure and seals well.

Fri Dec 20, 2002 9:27 am

I'm visiting in Lansing, MI. Any ideas where I might score a couple of these rubber hold-downs and the best method to mount them? I'd really appreciate the help. I'm in Lansing until Monday, then back on the road for Rochester, NY.

Fri Dec 20, 2002 10:21 am

Never been to MI, but you should just look for a VW parts place. If no dice then call import parts places and ask about their VW stuff. I think the same part gets used on Baja Bug conversions, so off road places may be a good place to call too, although they won't recognize them as being camper parts. EMPI knocks them off (as well as all of the aftermarket rubber places) so I have seen them hanging on the wall with the EMPI stuff at many places here in So. California.

Fri Dec 20, 2002 12:00 pm

Adam, it's conley. Give Bug City a call. 1-888 BUG-CITY or 888-284-2489. They have them in stock. They come two to a set and run $6 per set. They are like the ones on the inside the bus. Part number 6028. They are in CT and ship quite quickly. I'm not sure that you can get them by Monday. Otherwise, ship them to NY and hold on tight. See ya.

Fri Dec 20, 2002 1:52 pm

You guys are awesome! my family is amazed. my wife thought i was an idiot for reading these forums. now she's reading the threads. Conley, thanks a bunch. you are a lifesaver! my sister-in-law says you should get a cape ... super conley!

Fri Dec 20, 2002 4:18 pm

Adam, there are four bolts that hold the fiberglass to the metal frame, they are the four dometop heads you can see on top of the poptop, 2 on each side, right above the front doors. The rubber things hold down the metal framework, the bolts hold down the fiberglass, if those bolts are broke those rubber things will do you no good! Is the fiberglass lifting up separate from the metal frame or is the entire frame lifting up?
One of the front 2 bolts broke on me coming home from Lansing one day, I thought I was going to lose the entire top! Make sure that those bolts are not broke! If all 4 break you will lose the top. I took one of the bolts to the hardware store and matched them up, they are skinny! I changed all four.
If its the holddowns Dons sport vehicle on 6 mile rd in Detroit will have the rubber holddowns, they use them to hold down the fiberglass hoods on Baja bugs.
Take I-96 east to 275 south, get off at 6 mile, go east, it is a couple miles past Beech Daly on the left. I can not find the phone# but do a search for Dons Sport Vehicle, they have a website, they might be able to ship them in the mourning.
If not try, Kever Onderdelen in Ann Arbor, the # is 734-665-0207 ask for Dirk or Towns End Auto in Perry the # is 517-625-6744, Perry might be close to Lans. I am not sure but it has the same area code. Tell any of them that Chris from Livonia Auto sent you, I get jobber price and tax exempt.
But if you can not get anything sent to you or you can't get to one of the stores, I think I have some of those holddowns in my basement and I have a couple of those bolts in my bus at all times, so I have extra. I am 35 minutes east of Lansing. I will e-mail your personal account and give you my e-mail.

Fri Dec 20, 2002 10:06 pm

Do you have new/good seals around the top? That would be the first prob. Keep air out from under the 'lid'. hold downs would look pretty gawdy.

Fri Dec 20, 2002 10:37 pm

No they're not new, probably original. But the top will lift up with the slightest pressure, making it easy for turbulent air to lift it at 65 mph. Would new seals prevent this from ocurring? I agree the hold downs would not be attractive but neither would a big hole in the roof. Not to mention the lucky guy behind me who eats the top.

The previous owner included a heavier duty lift mechanism when he sold me the bus. He planned to install it when he restored the top and installed new canvas. But I'm not sure this would help either. My '72 does not perform this way, so maybe it would help. Maybe I should limp back to Rochester and replace the scissor mechanism, but after I disable one front brake.

Sat Dec 21, 2002 8:52 am

bmx2c4me,The rubber hold downs are original equipment, they are on the inside of the poptop. That is like saying shoe laces look gawdy.

Sat Dec 21, 2002 12:53 pm

I would check to see if the bolt that goes between the two cross bars on each hinge is still there. They go between each tube and keep the front hinge in an x shape and when they come out the front of the top will lift up.If they are gone the replacements must have the plastic locking nut or dual nuts and the excess bolt length must be cut off or it may rip the canvas. If the rear of the top is lifting then it is the hold-downs. Good luck,and have a fun trip!

Sat Dec 21, 2002 2:27 pm

If hold downs on the outside front were necessary they would have been installed at Westfaliawerk.I have had the hinge problem happen, and it's a pain to realign the hinge bolt, but it does fix the problem and keep the front of the poptop from lifting.

Sat Dec 21, 2002 6:56 pm

Tim, I have to (mildly) disagree with you. The uberbrains at westfalia DID realize there was a problem with "attempted liftoff" on the early bay window westy top, which is why the design was changed to rear hinged from forward hinged, and it is especially prevalent in 68 westies, being "first year" vans. At the time , the British used to point out the superiority of the Devon camper design over the Westy, citing the inherent (in their eyes) advantage of side hinging versus forward mount hinges. couple this with the inherent fatigue and wear and tear that is part and parcel of any thirty five year old mechanical system, and i see a real advantage to additional exterior clamps, if only from a "belts and suspenders' standpoint. Don't get me wrong, i love the basic elegance of most of the engineering in our fine rides, but, if the engineers always got it right te first time, then how come we spend so damn much time and money making our VWs go faster, handle better, stop quicker and (in some eyes) look "cooler"?
Whnerever i consider making a change to the original design of my ride, I live by the mantra "what have i got to lose?" If there is a down side, then i rethink my plan. in this case, i don't see a downside to adding clamps (other than the sniffs of disapproval from the "it's no longer factory stock/ original/pristine" purists), and a significant upside from a safety and peace of mind standpoint. However, to quote Dennis Miller, that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.

Sat Dec 21, 2002 7:38 pm

How are you doing Brian? You may be right but I would bet the bolt is missing. My 69 had the same problem,and fixing the front bracket worked like a charm ,and the brackets are steel not rubber straps. I am not a complete purist but I like to fix things as close to stock as possible and when that doesn't work look for other answers. Adam will probably know soon enough what the problem is,and how he decided to fix it. Later.

Sat Dec 21, 2002 9:26 pm

Hello Tim, Brian. Read the last post left by Chris and realized he did not understand I DID mean adding those gawdy clamps on the outside front corners, bmx2c4me was right. So I flopped my way down the interstate with a stiff tailwind, thank God, to Chris' place and he looked at the problem. Tim, you win a beer. And Chris gets a case next trip through. There was slop in that hinge bolt! I bucked that headwind back up the highway and the top did not flop once. Some air still leaked through but another minor adjustment and I think it'll be toasty warm in the rear of the bus too!

So my bus still looks pure. Tim, I'll be down AZ way next August to pay you the beer. Brian, I'll see you in a couple of days. Thanks to everyone, especially Chris181.

Sat Dec 21, 2002 9:41 pm

The 68 hinges are one-year-only. The upper bolts do not go thru the top. The screws goes thru the hinge into the wood.
68 to 72 hinges suck. They are tubular and very weak. Westfalia got smart and for 73 they re-designed them. They got rid of the tubular aluminum and replaced them with steel flat sock, like 74 to 79. Much stronger.

Raise your top up and then try to lift each front corner. Look at where the play is. More than likely the center pivot pin is shot. And the tubes are bent....

I have no more 73-only hinges. They sell quick. I do have a good pair of 68-only hinges. To spot the difference between 68 and 69-72 hinges: Look at the upper plates where the bolt holes are. 69-72 are flat where the 6mm nut and lockwasher sit. 68 has a raised counter-sunk hole because they used a oval counter-sunk wood screw.
Another oddity about 68: they were the only year to use a rubber strip as a seal between the hinge and the roof.

Sat Dec 21, 2002 10:24 pm

Aufever: Do the 73 hinges interchange with the 69-72 top? That sounds like a good replacement hinge if it does.I Learned alot about the hinge variations today. Thanks. Adam: Look me up when you get down here. Good people who drive VW's are always welcome at our place. Have a good and safe trip! (and take pictures of Brians Thing!)

Sun Dec 22, 2002 7:41 pm

hey now1 i don't let just anybody take pictures of my thing! i mean, not unless they get me good and likkered up first!

Sun Dec 22, 2002 8:36 pm

Yes, the 73 hinges are a bolt-in swap in 69 to 72's. Since they are one-year-only, they are getting tough to find. [like the upper cot, that is 73-only also]

And on, you cannot put 74-79 rear hinges on the front of 68-73 buses....