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Sat Apr 18, 2009 6:22 pm

lostinbaja wrote: In the big scheme of things, a HD engine is basically a low performance air cooled motorcycle engine, why wouldn't you want to increase the performance of the vehicle by using a HP liquid cooled motorcycle engine?
IMHO switching from a ACVW to a HD engine would be a giant step backwards.

Low performance...ouch...
A bone stock 2007-up HD Twin Cam makes about 60 HP and 76lbs of torque at the rear wheel compared to a stock 1600cc VW making 50 to 60 hp (depending on year) with 72lbs torque. With just a bit of tweaking, you can get an honest 80 HP out of an otherwise stock HD Twin Cam. EPA regulations is what keeps the Twin Cam down...
A giant step backward? I dunno 'bout that...
To each his own I guess...I'm not knockin' the 'Busa thing...just puttin' another thing out there...this is "bike powered manx style buggy" thread, isn't it?
Geez... :roll:

Sat Apr 18, 2009 8:11 pm

You could always keep the german spirit and the boxer engine style and go with this:

130 HP and 115 Ftlbs of torque @ 6 grand.

The problem is there is little in the way of aftermaerket Hot Rod parts. If I was going to do this, I would try it with a beemer engine.

Sun Apr 19, 2009 5:12 am

SpitnSpatz wrote: lostinbaja wrote: In the big scheme of things, a HD engine is basically a low performance air cooled motorcycle engine, why wouldn't you want to increase the performance of the vehicle by using a HP liquid cooled motorcycle engine?
IMHO switching from a ACVW to a HD engine would be a giant step backwards.

Low performance...ouch...
A bone stock 2007-up HD Twin Cam makes about 60 HP and 76lbs of torque at the rear wheel compared to a stock 1600cc VW making 50 to 60 hp (depending on year) with 72lbs torque. With just a bit of tweaking, you can get an honest 80 HP out of an otherwise stock HD Twin Cam. EPA regulations is what keeps the Twin Cam down...
A giant step backward? I dunno 'bout that...
To each his own I guess...I'm not knockin' the 'Busa thing...just puttin' another thing out there...this is "bike powered manx style buggy" thread, isn't it?
Geez... :roll:

By the time you factor in the cost of the engine and the conversion to mate it to a transmission to end up with an engine that basically puts out the same HP and torque as the ACVW and doesn't idle smoothly as the flat 4. I guess one advantage would be ...It would sound a lot better than the crotch rocket engines.

Sun Apr 19, 2009 5:48 am

Hank22 wrote: ....I would try it with a beemer engine.
...a very reliable, well designed air-cooled twin...that would be cool too!

...since we're spendin' a lot of money putting a bike motor in a buggy anyway :roll: , another awesome V-twin would be the Ducati 1098 R (180 hp and 99 lbs of torque)...

Quote: I guess one advantage would be ...It would sound a lot better than the crotch rocket engines.
...Right on! I am partial to the "thunder" of double barrel MC engines...I like the way you think lostinbaja!

Mon May 07, 2012 3:59 pm

Mongo63 wrote: didget69 wrote: Mongo - I was waiting for a response on 'Busa reliability.... 12 minutes, a new record... :wink:

Great reliability when hammered pushing 400-500lb bike & 200+ lb rider; now let's add the 1200+ lb buggy into equation + 300-400 lbs of passengers & see how reliability curve looks...

That being said, I'd still like to try it!

bnc Busa motor is what, 100 pounds? Makes 155 HP and 80 or so ft. lbs. TQ. A type one engine makes 50 HP and 40 or so ft. lbs. TQ and weighs 300 or so fully dressed? And the type one has been reliably pushing 2200 pound beetles around for 6 decades or so... it's all horsepower to weight and I really think if engineered properly could be one helluva a ride. Not to mention wrecked Busas and ZX11's can be had for 3 or 4K or about what you'd have in a base stroker longblock T1.

I would have to disagree as i work on bikes everyday. A busa powered buggy is more the norm than the exception, and as far as HP goes it was close to 175 BHP and 90 or so ft lbs of torque in 99 and its over 200 BHP after 2010. That is stock though. Ive seen 20HP gain with a power commander, exhaust and air filter and a DRY weight of 500lbs for the whole bike. Its a porker for sure but with the HP to back it up.

Oh and the thing about these engines are you can spend 2k on a bolt on turbo kit and get 300 HP at the wheel and ive seen them with headwork, low compression pistons, H beam rods, and the boost turned Waaaay up put out WELL OVER 500 HP at the wheel... They have been proven in drag racing, buggys, the texas mile, bonneville salt flats and they are dead reliable even with mods. They were overbuilt and can handle most anything thrown at it.

If you want to see a collection of bike powered buggys go over to www.minibuggy.net

Mon May 07, 2012 6:01 pm

Wow... bringing a 3 year-old thread back to life!

The consensus seems to be that - yes - anything can be done, but is it necessarily the best thing to do? I've seen the 'busa motor adapted to a Miata gearbox, but it wasn't cheap to do so. Most applications would like to see a reverse gear for a street buggy; I have a mockup GSXR motor & VW transaxle that have been sitting on a workbench since 2008 & I've figured out most of the hurdles in my head for adapting the two together. But in the long run, is it the best option for a rugged street buggy - e.g.; how strong is the bike clutch in holding up to running through a VW transaxle (using the VW box only for reverse & 3-4 'final-drive gearing options' and using bike trans to propel car) & turning 28" tall tires?

bnc

Tue May 08, 2012 7:21 am

didget69 wrote: Wow... bringing a 3 year-old thread back to life!

The consensus seems to be that - yes - anything can be done, but is it necessarily the best thing to do? I've seen the 'busa motor adapted to a Miata gearbox, but it wasn't cheap to do so. Most applications would like to see a reverse gear for a street buggy; I have a mockup GSXR motor & VW transaxle that have been sitting on a workbench since 2008 & I've figured out most of the hurdles in my head for adapting the two together. But in the long run, is it the best option for a rugged street buggy - e.g.; how strong is the bike clutch in holding up to running through a VW transaxle (using the VW box only for reverse & 3-4 'final-drive gearing options' and using bike trans to propel car) & turning 28" tall tires?

bnc

Haha. I was searching to see if anyone had done a busa powered bug when i came across the thread. Didnt see what the date of last post was.

Ive see bike engines adapted to buggys and cars in many different ways. Alot are chain drive to an IRS assembly like most of the one seater off road buggys use since there is no need for 2 transmissions. The Legends racing cars use a front mounted engine turned sideways with a splined u-joint that bolts in place of the sprocket, which goes through a driveshaft back to a rearend, usually something small like a shortened toyota 10 bolt.

I think if i were going to put one in a buggy or beetle i would just remove the VW tranny and use the buggy style IRS in its place. It would save weight, be stronger, and is alot more compact. The clutches are pretty stout stock and you can get lockup clutches that can handle well over 500HP on a turbo busa for not that much money.

If you want a better look at a buggy with this rearend setup check out the linked thread. This is a guy i know who built it from scratch except for the rearend itself, spindles, etc. Im guessing it weighs a little over 1,000lbs. He is running a bone stock suzuki TL1000 engine in his and it holds up just fine. Its all about gearing. If its geared to high you will always be burning the tires or clutch but with 6 gears and a stock busa able to hit just under 200mph, you will have more than enough room to gear it suitable for the street or offroad or whatever. The buggy guys use a gear on the rearend and a plain old starter motor for reverse. Its not very fast but its an effective way to get reverse without breaking the bank. The buggy in the link has this setup. I would also contend that for the price of a built VW engine and tranny you could put the IRS and busa engine in a buggy/beetle.

http://www.minibuggy.net/forum/badland-buggy-group/14397-glock-n-ballz-st2-build-109.html

Tue May 08, 2012 7:43 am

Yep - Legends cars have been around for 20 years now - Toyota live-axle diffs... and no need for reverse.

Not sure about the legality of a chain-driven car on the road today.

bnc

Tue May 08, 2012 9:18 am

didget69 wrote: Yep - Legends cars have been around for 20 years now - Toyota live-axle diffs... and no need for reverse.

Not sure about the legality of a chain-driven car on the road today.

bnc

The guy who has the buggy in the link i posted has his buggy street legal. He went through the motions of DMV, going to state troopers to have vins checked and inspection station to get it inspected as roadworthy. It passed all the above and he actually drove it by my shop yesterday. Its as reliable as any other vehicle besides having to change the chain occasionally just like a motorcycle.

Tue May 08, 2012 10:11 am

Texas has some fairly lax laws regarding what passes as a 'car'... this may not be the case in all states.

Tue May 08, 2012 10:38 am

I think have recommended this to didget in PM's, but anyone reading this thread with any interest shouldi google "Smart Car Hayabusa" and watch the videos.

Tue May 08, 2012 11:11 am

Yes, im pretty sure the smart car conversion kits run a chain drive.

Its not all that hard to get a "homebuilt" car on the road. There are lots of people from other states who have gotten them street legal.

All this is kinda besides the point though. Do you really think the inspection station is going to crawl under your car and see what kind of transmission you have in your bug?? And if your buggy is already street legal then why go out of your way to tell them and make it harder on yourself?

Tue May 08, 2012 11:34 am

The Smart car thing is totally beside the point...unless the point is to watch some Smart Cars in Europe drifting around a parking lot burning rubber....which was my point.

I think if you live in a state that has inspections you run at least a risk that anytime you have a car that is not in compliance, it could get redtagged in one of those inspections. Many variables in that process that can have an affect on your inspection, including whether or not the inspector's home life was OK when he or she left for work that day....

Tue May 08, 2012 11:52 am

wythac wrote: The Smart car thing is totally beside the point...unless the point is to watch some Smart Cars in Europe drifting around a parking lot burning rubber....which was my point.

I think if you live in a state that has inspections you run at least a risk that anytime you have a car that is not in compliance, it could get redtagged in one of those inspections. Many variables in that process that can have an affect on your inspection, including whether or not the inspector's home life was OK when he or she left for work that day....

California notwistanding, i have never had a inspection station mess with any of the engine/transmission components on a classic car which doesnt need to be smog tested. I guess you cant put a new engine in a classic car either... Or put a different engine in a classic car that a million people have done and never had a problem getting it inspected.

All this is beside the point since, in Texas at least, you can fully register, inspect, get a valid vin number stamped on your car, and drive it anywhere as has already been shown with or without a chain drive. I dont understand what the big deal is. Motorcycles have run on chain drive for 100 yrs...

Tue May 08, 2012 1:06 pm

No need to tilt at windmills, Franky. Keeping in mind this is a forum on the www, I think what didget and I were trying to point out is that OK in Texas is not the same thing as OK in Belgium, or Florida, et al.
Perhaps Florida doesn't work as a good example in this context, since I just posted a picture from Florida on here last week that showed a speedboat hull on a beetle pan licensed there.....

Wed May 09, 2012 1:34 pm

I was simply stating what i know. I even specified that in Texas we can do this. So everyone on the www reading this in Texas knows they can get a chain driven buggy street legal. I think the best thing to do is call your dmv in the state you live in and ask them what you have to do to register a homebuilt vehicle. That should get you the answers you need. Thats how the guy in the link i posted found out what he needed. Oh and i know a guy here in Texas who had a chevette with a boat hull on it and it was street legal... :D

Wed May 09, 2012 1:50 pm

nice combo...a boat anchor with a boat hull!

Wed May 09, 2012 1:54 pm

wythac wrote: nice combo...a boat anchor with a boat hull!

Yeah, that was probly the best improvement ever made for that car... Haha

Wed May 09, 2012 5:21 pm

Powered by a HiyaBoosta Bike motor on a VW type 1 transmission.

Wed May 09, 2012 6:22 pm

Interesting build - not my style, but interesting, none the less!

bnc