TheSamba.com :: View topic - Any (wheat) farmers or agribusiness types here?

Wed Feb 13, 2008 10:43 am

Can I hear from anyone on this forum that farms, especially those that grow wheat? I’m a small business owner/scientist that developed a means of measuring crop quality during harvest (i.e. on combine). This data can greatly enhance ones knowledge of how well their agronomic practices are working. Agronomists have shown us for years that wheat protein content is directly associated with available nitrogen. My sensor can make a map of protein that in turn can be used to adjust fertilizer rates in subsequent crops. I’ve been beating my head against the wall for over 10 years trying to get growers to understand what value we can give them. Furthermore, we can demonstrate the ability to help Preserve Identity and detect tainted samples (as with the pet food scandal of this past year) if only our sensors would be placed in the stream of grain each time it is transferred from one point to another. The sensor is two or three times less expensive as current lab instruments and ours is built tough specifically for the ag industry.

For example, I show this map of protein:

We understand from the agronomists that both yield and protein increase with available nitrogen. Each variety of wheat has a ‘critical protein%’ at which yield increases stop but kernel protein continues to rise.

The distribution of protein within the field is shown next

Accordingly, if you measure protein above this critical value, you have given the crop too much fertilizer. Conversely, if the measured protein content is below the critical value, we could have increased fertilizer which would increase yield. For the above 320 acre field, the grower could have made an extra $10,000 if only they had used our sensor and variable rate fertilization.

Again, I’d love to hear from anyone that has connections to the world of wheat farming.

Download our brochure

DSquared Development Inc

… and for those that wonder, yes, the same sensor can measure moisture, oil, and protein in all cereal grains; canola through soy beans. We can also measure all types of other things such as wax content in bio-fuels, octane of gasoline, hematocrit of your blood (non-invasive), plant health, etc. etc. etc. We just need to calibrate.

Wed Feb 13, 2008 10:46 am

I always wanted to know how crops would react to "House mixes for cruising"

Can your gizmo's figure data on that? I know the guy's in the enclosed heated and air conditioned combines have some pretty sweet systems blaring ... don't they? :wink:

Wed Feb 13, 2008 10:58 am

keifernet wrote: I always wanted to know how crops would react to "House mixes for cruising"

Can your gizmo's figure data on that? I know the guy's in the enclosed heated and air conditioned combines have some pretty sweet systems blaring ... don't they? :wink:
now I have the horrible visualization of some shit-kicker rocking out to techno in the cab of his combine. thanks.....

Wed Feb 13, 2008 11:30 am

Wow Dave - that's super cool, but I guess it really is out of the scale of small (~1 acre) home farms? I know our garden did horribly last summer due to the drought, which I'm hoping to address with a water catchment system, but it would be really neat to analyze all the crops.
:)

Wed Feb 13, 2008 12:15 pm

Lind wrote: keifernet wrote: I always wanted to know how crops would react to "House mixes for cruising"

Can your gizmo's figure data on that? I know the guy's in the enclosed heated and air conditioned combines have some pretty sweet systems blaring ... don't they? :wink:
now I have the horrible visualization of some shit-kicker rocking out to techno in the cab of his combine. thanks.....

Just giving Dave a ration of compost...

I hope he finds some real information and contacts out of this... I however remain skeptical as the case may be :wink:

Wed Feb 13, 2008 12:20 pm

I'll pay a 5% finders fee to anyone that supplies a lead that turn into a sale. Retail price for our sensor is $15k.

edit
keifernet wrote: <snip>I however remain skeptical as the case may be :wink:

skeptical of which part? the ability to meet suitable clients in this forum, the technology, or the wacko behind it?

Wed Feb 13, 2008 12:52 pm

I just knew it...this is just another one of those ads for spectrophotometers that I see everywhere.

It seems like you can't turn around nowadays without someone trying to cram a spectrophotometer down your throat! :P

Wed Feb 13, 2008 1:34 pm

Major Woody wrote: I just knew it...this is just another one of those ads for spectrophotometers that I see everywhere.

It seems like you can't turn around nowadays without someone trying to cram a spectrophotometer down your throat! :P

Or the new version of the LM-1

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=279522

:wink:

Wed Feb 13, 2008 1:38 pm

vultures love reoccurring incomes.

any horticulturists here? We can detect plant varieties.

Wed Feb 13, 2008 1:58 pm

DaveM wrote: vultures love reoccurring incomes.

any horticulturists here? We can detect plant varieties.

I would think that perhaps golf courses might be interested in that for greens maintenance?
Otherwise, I know they do grow some wheat in eastern NC, rotated with cotton & soybeans. The farmer that rents about 40 acres from my family farms probably a thousand or two in that county...but I'd imagine the bigger market would be in the midwest...

Wed Feb 13, 2008 2:54 pm

Have you tried contacting the COOP's?

Wed Feb 13, 2008 3:41 pm

DaveM wrote: ....My sensor can make a map of protein that in turn can be used to adjust fertilizer rates in subsequent crops.....

Have you established that your highly localized protein content measurements predict the necessary nitrogen in specific field locations in next years crop better than a simple average? Nitrogen, being water soluble, is easily diffused, so it's easy to see why we are skeptical of the need for such granularity.

Wed Feb 13, 2008 3:54 pm

Zeen wrote: DaveM wrote: ....My sensor can make a map of protein that in turn can be used to adjust fertilizer rates in subsequent crops.....

Have you established that your highly localized protein content measurements predict the necessary nitrogen in specific field locations in next years crop better than a simple average? Nitrogen, being water soluble, is easily diffused, so it's easy to see why we are skeptical of the need for such granularity.

Every bit of research I have seen supports the fact that variable rate fertilization works. Soil types, slope, etc. all contribute to a plants health and productivity. These attributes definitely vary over a field. Our sensor gives feedback for the variable rate settings. I was always taught you must measure what you produce in order to better utilize inputs and to maintain/improve quality.

Wed Feb 13, 2008 4:02 pm

DaveM wrote: These attributes definitely vary over a field. Our sensor gives feedback for the variable rate settings...

No disagreement there; the attributes definitely vary over a field. The question is, do attributes you measure at harvest time correlate to specific input requirements during the next growing season many months later. When it comes to nitrogen, I think not.

Wed Feb 13, 2008 4:06 pm

I am having a hard time processing James Brown waxing philosophical about the predictive value of nitrogen dispersion.

Wed Feb 13, 2008 4:10 pm

the relationship between applied nitrogen and plant yeild and grain protein content has been documented time and time again. This is well understood.

Zeen, do you grow wheat or other crops?

Wed Feb 13, 2008 4:16 pm

DaveM wrote: ....the relationship between applied nitrogen and plant yeild and grain protein content has been documented time and time again. This is well understood...

Of course it is, but you're missing the point. You're saying we should go through a fair amount of effort and expense to vary the application of nitrogen in an extremely granular way, based on measurements of yield from the year before. I'm simply questioning the correlation, given the diffusion characteristics of nutrients.

Wed Feb 13, 2008 4:18 pm

Major Woody wrote: I am having a hard time processing James Brown waxing philosophical about the predictive value of nitrogen dispersion.

Some people rain down ambient techno beats from the cab of their combine, I prefer James Brown and Motown.

Wed Feb 13, 2008 4:25 pm

Zeen wrote: DaveM wrote: ....the relationship between applied nitrogen and plant yeild and grain protein content has been documented time and time again. This is well understood...

Of course it is, but you're missing the point. You're saying we should go through a fair amount of effort and expense to vary the application of nitrogen in an extremely granular way, based on measurements of yield from the year before. I'm simply questioning the correlation, given the diffusion characteristics of nutrients.

You adjust based on protein content of the kernel, not yield. From my understanding, there is not much dispersion of nitrogen unless in a few specific soil/water situations. Look below at the map and you can see where the fertilizer guy drove across the field diagonally (middle left section, the cyan line in the green portion of the field. If there was any dispersion, you would not see the artifact.

Wed Feb 13, 2008 4:47 pm

DaveM wrote: Zeen wrote: DaveM wrote: ....the relationship between applied nitrogen and plant yeild and grain protein content has been documented time and time again. This is well understood...

Of course it is, but you're missing the point. You're saying we should go through a fair amount of effort and expense to vary the application of nitrogen in an extremely granular way, based on measurements of yield from the year before. I'm simply questioning the correlation, given the diffusion characteristics of nutrients.

You adjust based on protein content of the kernel, not yield. From my understanding, there is not much dispersion of nitrogen unless in a few specific soil/water situations. Look below at the map and you can see where the fertilizer guy drove across the field diagonally (middle left section, the cyan line in the green portion of the field. If there was any dispersion, you would not see the artifact.

Excellent, now we're getting somewhere. But I assume this artifact is from nitrogen applied during the growing season, so it had a chance to be absorbed by the crop before being dispersed. If so, it simply confirms what we agree on, that more nitrogen = more protein. I'm thinking that all of that variability in nitrogen level would be flattened out by the next growing season. A nice group of data might be the nutrient levels at the start and end of the season. Or, if you had that protein map for two years in a row that showed the same pattern of protein level after two years of constant and level nitrogen application, I might be convinced there was some underlying cause of variation that could be equalized with nitrogen variation. I think your idea has merit, but we need data to calculate a payback.