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Sun Jun 29, 2003 10:29 pm

Hello I am new to the scene and was hoping I could get some advice before I buy my first bus. I am looking to get a camper thought I am not sure of the advantages to each style. I was wondering if I could get some opinions? Also what should I look at in terms of problem areas unique to models or in general?

Thanks for the help,
Scott

Mon Jun 30, 2003 2:45 am

If you're on the East coast, take what you can get. If on the West, you have choices. Since you posted this in the '68-and-up forum, I assume you don't want a splittie. Pre-'68 busses are simpler to work on and a lot more fun than the later models, but the later bay window busses have definate creature-comfort and safety advantages. So just starting with the assumption of a bay window, what year?

No real reason to get a '68-to-'70 bus, unless you find one you really like. They should be cheaper, though, because they are less in demand. In '71, VW introduced the dual port version of the 1600cc engine (a nice motor), and this was the first year where front disc brakes were standard equipment. After '71, they just get more complicated - they introduced the 2.0 litre engine in the mid-seventies and continued to glop on more stuff until the T2 was discontinued in Germany, somewhere around '79. I seem to remember hearing that for the first year the two-litre was available, they hadn't added the access hatch from the top of the engine compartment, so they were a bitch to work on. But going from the available '68-and-up years, if you want to work on the bus yourself, you lean towards the '71. If you don't care, or are really good with a wrench, the field is wide open.

'79 is the cutoff for what I think is interesting. The '80-and-on years seem to me to be nothing special. The later watercooled VW's are eveen less interesting. Apologies to Vanagon owners.

So now you have a good idea of what year you want and can consider the camper group. There are a whole lot of different types for pre-'68 models. For some time VW of Germany would only sell Westfalia campers to US dealers that bought a certain quota of other models, so most US dealers couldn't keep up with the demand for Westfalias because there was no way they could sell enough Kombis, Panels and Transporters. This gave rise to all sorts of conversions across the US: Sundial, EZ Camper and ASI/Riviera were the most popular. Other models such as the Devon and Dormobile were popular in Europe during this time. But by the '70's the US restrictions had gone away, so Westfalias became the predominant purchase.

Finally, we get to your question. Most bay window busses you see - at least on the West coast - are either Westies or Rivieras. You'll see the occasional Hi-Top Weekender or a custom "Westfakia", but for the most part that's it (although the odd Dormobile comes available from time to time - buy it if you can). Look at the classifieds on this site and you'll get a pretty good idea what goes for how much. If the camper group is complete, then they are all pretty good. The Rivieras have fiberglass tops that pop straight up, opening up a flat space at the roofline to sleep two additional people or to stow gear. The earlier Westies (maybe all years, I don't know) have fiberglass tops that raise only at the front (and some from only the rear). They tend to have cots that flip down from either side after the top is raised - meaning less gear storage and the extra two people can't cuddle. I personally prefer the Rivieras for that reason. But the Westie seat fabric and overall quality in workmanship are far, far better.

If money is an object, you'll end up doing what I did. I bought a '71 ASI/Riviera on its last legs, ripped everything out of it and installed a '78 Westie interrior. That's the nicest combination, I think. But the point is that it makes the most sense if you're on a budget to get one of anything in good running condition and with a solid body, then just go nuts with it. Unless you're a purist, you don't really care about keeping everything original - and there are plenty parts to be had. I bought my '71 for $1,000, restored it and drove it for five years, then sold it for $5,500. Had a good time. Lost money on the deal, for sure, but it had better be a hobby if you're planning on buying one of these things.

I traded up to a rare '63 Canadiana camper. I'm still in the beginning parts of the restoration, but I still have way more fun driving it than I did my fully restored '71. Just thought I'd throw that in.

r

Mon Jun 30, 2003 5:23 am

I agree with most of what Rob said. I too donÆt care for later buses but for me that includes 72 higher. Only because I donÆt care for type 4 engines. Some folks love them and thats fine. There are a lot more around to choose from and they do drive a lot better. They are more complicated and cost a heck of a lot more to maintain. Rob did overlook and very nice but hard to find camper conversion. Sportsmobiles are not well known but they are cool. They are often mistaken for Rivieras. Sportsmobile also had a fiberglass top that goes straight up and has a full bed for 2 on the roof line. My first bus was a 70 Sportsmobile.http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/82908.jpg
I bought another one a few months ago that was rust out and am currently converting my 69 standard to a Sportsmobile. 71 is defiantly in my opinion the choice bus because of the brakes and the upright engine.http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/82918.jpg
You can covert a 69 and 70 to disc brakes very easily by swapping all the running gear which I did one my 70, but if you donÆt want to buy a bus that you have to do all that work to and can find a good 71, go for it. 68 to 73 Westie pop tops are worthless. The fold out cot is pointless. Those are the one that lean forward. The 74 to 79 lean toward the rear and are very nice with a full bed up top. 67 and earlier camper are bigger money and harder to find. They also had Adventurewagens commonly called high roofs. Those are cool too but you canÆt park them in a garage. You can see examples of all these buses in the gallery. It all comes down to want you want in the end. Hope I helped. -Jeremy

Mon Jun 30, 2003 11:55 am

Thanks Rob and Jeremy. I have an engine question after the wealth of information you have given. It seems that overall the 74 to 79 westies will drive a bit better but come with a more complicated engine set up. Is this due to the introduction of emission control systems in 72? Will I see a noticeable increase of hp in a 2000cc late 70s engine vs. a 71 with dual port design?

Mon Jun 30, 2003 12:12 pm

the later bus engines produce more hp and torque than a stock 1600 dual port. However, a type 1 engine is cheaper to modify for more power. Arguably, replacement parts are easier to find for earlier engines, and cheaper than the later type 4 engines (especially heat exchangers, exhaust parts and heads.) The trade-off is that the later westphalias are better equipped, and the hydraulic lifters in the late 2 litre engines means less valve-train maintenance.
Do you want to buy a bus, or do you want to build a bus? if you are looking for a turn-key vehicle with minimal maintenance requirements, i would recommend finding a late bus, with a known service history. A well-maintained fuel injection system is relatively worry free, gas mileage is acceptable, and performance is better. If you aren't afraid to pick up the tools and start wrenching what i would do (purists close your eyes) is start with a 71, install a well built 1776 engine, and the later westy interior from a donor bus. You still have upper berths of dubious usefulness (as the later tops were different than the earlier tops, and will not interchange) but the later "main floor" layout makes better use of space.

Mon Jun 30, 2003 10:35 pm

I'd just like to add a note about the difference between earlier bay westies that pop up in the front, and have just a cot for an upper berth, kind of useless IMHO; and then the later (73-79) bays which pop up in the rear, and have about a 3'x6' bunk on top. By the way you can swap engines too, if you get the engine tin to fit, I've currently got a 74 westies with an upright in it. Jeremy

Tue Jul 01, 2003 7:25 am

I personally prefer the driving characteristics and layout of the 78-79 Westy Power assisted brakes, disc brake front,hydrolic valves,fuel injection, and 2 litre motor. But the 68-71 is more condusive to the do-it-yourself maintenance.
Good luck...

Tue Jul 01, 2003 10:28 pm

I have seen the later 2 liter injected engines that have been converted over to a carb setup. Is this desirable or a cheap fix that was done to an ailing fuel injection system, indicative of the rest of the maintenance that was done on the bus?

What should I look for in the camping equipment? Was some equipment standard vs. options? Will some pieces of equipment be more difficult/expensive to repair or replace if not in working order?

Thanks for all the help!!!
Appreciate it,
Scott

Tue Jul 01, 2003 11:03 pm

It's an easy conversion (relatively), some people are just more familiar/comfortable with carbs. Some campers had stoves & fridges, while others had an icebox. The layouts changed quite a bit as time passed, with the later models seeming to be more thought out, in my opinion, you just seem to get alittle bit more room to move with each revision. I really like the layout with the swivel seat, and all the cupboards behind the driver's seat. The propane tanks seem to be difficult to service from postings I've seen on here.
Jeremy

Wed Jul 02, 2003 6:03 am

A well maintained FI system is very very good, but many air-cooled mechanics and DIYers don't know how to fix them when they go wrong, so an easy short-cut is to rip it all out and install carbs at the first sign of trouble. carbs generally will not give you more power, and will definitely hurt your mpg. (especially a single progressive carb set-up.) Carb installation MAY indicate maintenance sloppiness, (especially if the installation looks sloppy), but the tale is better told by doing a compression test, any maintenance history (receipts, logs if you are lucky, etc.) and of course, a good comprehensive test drive.
fridges are a pain to repair , but the info is out there for the mechanically inclined. as far as optional equipment, it depends upon whether you are looking at a riviera or a westy- there are some differences in equipment level between the two.. In some cases, the stove was optional, and some campers had ice boxes rather than fridges, and there were some differences in water tank size. Then you have the add-ons, like tents, side steps, etc.