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Fri May 27, 2011 3:43 pm

nr 11 wrote: Quote: I wonder though if the Wagner-car and the car in the pictures with writing on them are also the same.

That's the question. Here is another picture of Winifred Wagner with a cabriolet. Is this the one from Lafferentz or maybe her car?

What concerns Barber or even Wiersch, the older books doesn't always tell the truth. With a great respect for those specialists, but sometimes the information is wrong or cannot be correct.

That car appears to have blackout covers on the headlights in that picture

Sat May 28, 2011 12:57 am

^which is also the case with a pic of the front of AIII 0825 in Barbers book. My theory would be that they (the Wagnner and Ferry's and the one in the pic with the scribling) are all the same car and they just took these pics with these people for propaganda/publicity purposes or the author who wrote the comment with the pic just made a mistake. :D

Oh, and I agree with nr 11 that a lot of mistakes were made in earlier books covering the history of these cars. The pictures in these books are a helpfull resource though.

Sat May 28, 2011 7:50 am

Here’s the pic of what is suppose to be Ferry’s vert with the black out covers

Here some pics from Terry Schulers book VW KDF-Wagen 1934-1945 of what I believe is also Ferry’s vert. According to the under script the car used to be a sedan. :?

Here’s a nice example of two authors telling a different story about what seems to be the same car:

In Die Edel Kaefer this car is shown and said to be a Karmann prototype

Keith Seume in Essential VW Beetle cabriolet claims it to be a car designed by Rudolf Ringel (former Porsche employee) for the British.

Who knows? For all I know it might be Ferry's car which they found in Austria and changed a little! :shock: :lol: We might never know the exact truth but it is great to watch these early cars and learn about them. :D

Sat May 28, 2011 8:35 am

The vert with the chrome horns is made by Ringel. All his cars are done with those chrome horns flush in the fenders.
I am not convinced that this car is a proto from Karmann....no way. :!: I think B Wiersch has cut some corners. The car constructed for Charles Radclyffe is with the sema's in the front panels like the Radclyffe roadster and later Hebmullers. Yes, col Mc Evoy ordered a 2 seater and a 4 seater convert in the Ringelworkshop. Both cars were destined for Col Radclyffe.
Even Karmann copied this but in production they moved them to the back side. Hirst used the cornerstone convert,

the Ringel convert below the cornerstone cab

and the Radclyffe roadster.

(sorry no pict with Hirst)

How the cornerstone convert survived the war is a mistery? for sure the made a new soft top without the windows. Where the car is now is even a bigger mistery....scraped :shock: or hidden? :? Who knows.

Sat May 28, 2011 2:15 pm

peter schepens wrote: .... is with the sema's in the front panels like the Radclyffe roadster and later Hebmullers. ...

I have a pic Peter.

Sat May 28, 2011 10:01 pm

Sun May 29, 2011 12:48 am

Blue Baron wrote:

This is not a VW but a Tatra T75

Sun May 29, 2011 9:21 am

Quote: Here some pics from Terry Schulers book VW KDF-Wagen 1934-1945 of what I believe is also Ferry’s vert

Actually this is car IIIA 0825, look at the license plate.

Quote: Here’s a nice example of two authors telling a different story about what seems to be the same car

Certainly not, 0825 had the semaphores at the side of the front screen. The white car, which is like Peter says is a Ringel car, has the sema's below the front screen.
We call this car the blondy, because Miss Hilda Gans was photographed in this car. Miss Gans left Wolfsburg at the end of 1947. So this car cannot be the Karmann 2. This one came later.

Quote: For all I know it might be Ferry's car which they found in Austria and changed a little

The car cannot be the Gmünd cabrio of Ferry Porsche, because thie cabrio was seen in 1948 next to Ferry and Ferdinand, Komenda and ..... Porsche number One. You can see him behind Ferdinand or at least his austrian license plate.
You can compare the license plate with the picture at the sawmill in Gmünd.

Sun May 29, 2011 9:24 am

Maybe the blondy was built in the last days of the war.
Maybe he was never been used, what explains the fresch state. For me he looks totally new.

But with the type of sema's, he's KDF. :roll:

Sun May 29, 2011 9:25 am

Quote: This is not a VW but a Tatra T75

Yeah right, you found it. =D>

Sun May 29, 2011 10:53 am

nr 11 wrote: Quote: Here some pics from Terry Schulers book VW KDF-Wagen 1934-1945 of what I believe is also Ferry’s vert

Actually this is car IIIA 0825, look at the license plate.

Yeh, I noticed. So that would make it Ferry's vert, right? My point exactly.

nr 11 wrote: Quote: Here’s a nice example of two authors telling a different story about what seems to be the same car

Certainly not, 0825 had the semaphores at the side of the front screen. The white car, which is like Peter says is a Ringel car, has the sema's below the front screen.
We call this car the blondy, because Miss Hilda Gans was photographed in this car. Miss Gans left Wolfsburg at the end of 1947. So this car cannot be the Karmann 2. This one came later.

I think you misread my post. I know it is a not Ferry's vert (although we never know for sure :wink: ) but I am just saying the pics show the same car (but NOT Ferry's vert) and one author claims it was made by Karmann and the other it was created by Ringel. It was just to emphasis your point that the information in books can be wrong some of the time. Sorry to get you confused. :oops:

nr 11 wrote: Quote: For all I know it might be Ferry's car which they found in Austria and changed a little

The car cannot be the Gmünd cabrio of Ferry Porsche, because thie cabrio was seen in 1948 next to Ferry and Ferdinand, Komenda and ..... Porsche number One. You can see him behind Ferdinand or at least his austrian license plate.
You can compare the license plate with the picture at the sawmill in Gmünd.

It was just a joke about the Ringel car. But very good eye on the famous no.1 pic! :shock: I never really noticed the beetle on the left in the background. Any idea what happened to it?

Sun May 29, 2011 12:34 pm

Quote: I think you misread my post. I know it is a not Ferry's vert (although we never know for sure ) but I am just saying the pics show the same car (but NOT Ferry's vert) and one author claims it was made by Karmann and the other it was created by Ringel. It was just to emphasis your point that the information in books can be wrong some of the time. Sorry to get you confused.

Stupy me. I get it now. Sorry. :oops:

Quote: It was just a joke about the Ringel car. But very good eye on the famous no.1 pic! I never really noticed the beetle on the left in the background. Any idea what happened to it?

All credits go to bart de laet, he has better eyes than mine. (I wear glasses) I was surprised too. Looked ten thousand times, but never noticed the bug. So in 1948 he was still in Austria. With another bug in the picture. What happened next? In my wildest dreams I see him in my garage, but when I touch him it is my 1302 LS from 71. So, I don't have him. Where is he? :lol:

Tue May 31, 2011 10:17 am

There's a slide show with newly discovered photos from the Third Reich, including a photo of Hitler receiving the convertible for his 50th birthday, some from the factory cornerstone ceremony and Hitler opening the 1939 Berlin auto show flanked by KdF-Wagens.

To download the slide show, click on this link: http://www.emailjokez.com/files/461041-Photos3eReichRevueLi_63034_46104_1.pps

Sat Jun 04, 2011 3:59 pm

Does anybody have others pictures of the KDF-cabrio's?

Tue Jun 07, 2011 4:44 am

Does anybody have a picture of the convertible of Ley?

We have one, but one with not so much to see. Seems that no one had a camera back than, when the car was delivered.

Tue Jun 07, 2011 2:47 pm

Here are two pics.
This one is a 1938.

In this one sits Goering and Ley stands beside him, next to Porsche.

Tue Jun 07, 2011 3:18 pm

^^^
"Ok...No one smile for the camera!!!" *click*

Wed Jun 08, 2011 2:18 am

Sorry but this is not de Ley cabriolet, it is the V303. AKA the cornerstone cab.
But very good that you posted this picture with the text below. I always thought, this was Bernd Rosemeyer. :oops:

This is neither de Ley cabriolet, because it was the present for Göring.
It became the temporary licensenumber IIIA 0427 and later IA 223232 or 223332.

Seems there are no pictures of the Ley convertible. :(

Wed Jun 08, 2011 4:06 am

nr 11 wrote:
Sorry but this is not de Ley cabriolet, it is the V303. AKA the cornerstone cab.

I knew that one is too early, but I thought you won´t mind one more vert pic.
I had another vert on a picture but have not found it yet. Must be on my older computer. I´ll post it when I find it.

Wed Jun 08, 2011 8:21 am

Carsten,

Quote: I knew that one is too early, but I thought you won´t mind one more vert pic.

Especially with the subscript.

Go go, surch your Ley picture, if you can start the old beast.

Here is the one we have, or thinking for 99 % that this must be the Ley one.

As you can see, the man is sitting in the kübel typ 62/1, the forerunner of the typ 82. He was probably going, in the autumn or early winter 1939 to the front in Poland.
The cabrio is riding just behind the kübel.