TheSamba.com :: View topic - Repro. Split and Oval w/ w vert decklids and hella fans

Fri Jul 04, 2008 4:02 pm

Anyone going to be selling these at any east coast shows (NC, VA, TN)?

Fri Jul 04, 2008 11:24 pm

passoa55 wrote: 50&60 wrote: i just spoke with the guy behind these and he tells me split and oval fenders are next in line :D

I'm waiting with patience! :D

Pascal, time to get rid of your collection before the devaluation :shock:

Sat Jul 05, 2008 4:28 am

I must admit these lids do look very good and good repro early wings is something we have been waiting for for a long time.

Everytime I see a thread about repro parts there is always talk about early heater channels and floors, everyone always says the tooling is prohibitive hence why they dont exist but can anyone give us a rough idea how much we are talking. Presumably a large press and the machining neccesary to make the dies. So are we talking $100k for a press or much more than that ?

Cheers
Kev

Sat Jul 05, 2008 4:39 am

Kevin Maddock wrote: I must admit these lids do look very good and good repro early wings is something we have been waiting for for a long time.

Everytime I see a thread about repro parts there is always talk about early heater channels and floors, everyone always says the tooling is prohibitive hence why they dont exist but can anyone give us a rough idea how much we are talking. Presumably a large press and the machining neccesary to make the dies. So are we talking $100k for a press or much more than that ?

Cheers
Kev

Many years ago, I worked at a company that was stamping out door panels for Ford. In the toolroom, we had some new die came from overseas, and we had to modify the tooling. At that time, each die was $750k.

I imagine dies to stamp out wings would be quite expensive.

Sat Jul 05, 2008 10:36 am

Kevin Maddock wrote: So are we talking $100k for a press or much more than that ?
The cost of the press doesn't enter into it. You don't need to buy the press. All you need to do is make the dies, then take them to a co that has the press.

Sat Jul 05, 2008 11:16 am

Volkswagen could only get about 10,000 pieces made per die. Then it would start to wear and need to be replaced, as well.

Sat Jul 05, 2008 11:43 am

Splitdog wrote: Volkswagen could only get about 10,000 pieces made per die.
Not true. Dies last a lot longer than that. At 10k pieces, that would mean they'd have to make new dies every THREE days at the height of production.
When I toured the VW factory in Puebla a few years ago, they told me the original German dies were used in Mexico until the early 90s. At that time they were so worn out that they had to make new ones.

Sat Jul 05, 2008 6:26 pm

If they are able to sell 10,000 fenders, I think they would be VERY happy. Plus they have to make 4 sets of tooling, for 4 fenders per basic type I would guess. They are not making a killing on these parts, I bet.

Tue Jul 08, 2008 4:23 pm

passoa55 wrote: 50&60 wrote: i just spoke with the guy behind these and he tells me split and oval fenders are next in line :D

I'm waiting with patience! :D

When I spoke to him a month ago and mentioned he should do it. He
told me that they were already made in Mexico and that nobody wants em' anyway. It would be a waste of time.

:roll:

Did he happen to change his tune after the response of the decklids????
What's the real story?

Wed Jul 09, 2008 12:40 pm

real or repro?

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=620029

Wed Jul 09, 2008 1:45 pm

splitjunkie wrote: real or repro?

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=620029

repop

the spot welds are very messy like the repops and the top of the main pressing is sharp not rounded like the repops but it looks like it was sprayed with the primer not dipped like the repops so i dont know

Wed Jul 09, 2008 3:19 pm

56vwrag wrote: splitjunkie wrote: real or repro?

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=620029

repop

the spot welds are very messy like the repops and the top of the main pressing is sharp not rounded like the repops but it looks like it was sprayed with the primer not dipped like the repops so i dont know

He says the hinge plate and the bottom reinforcement were removed and reinstalled.

Any w decklid that is in black primer is suspect now.

I am not complaining. I am glad that these deck lids are being reproduced. But it will make it more interesting when buying a really cherry "original".

Wed Jul 09, 2008 5:27 pm

56vwrag wrote: splitjunkie wrote: real or repro?

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=620029

repop

the spot welds are very messy like the repops and the top of the main pressing is sharp not rounded like the repops but it looks like it was sprayed with the primer not dipped like the repops so i dont know

If theres enough info to really suggest its a repro someone should advise Everett. A similar thing happened last week with a split glovebox clock was advertised as restored when it was basically a repro face and bezel and such dressed over a period clock mechanism. The ad was magically updated a short time later when several of us were able to call it out.

I and a few others asked way back here what the differences were in these lids og vs repro, so this is the first time there was a comment about messy spot welds and square corner areas vs rounded, seems to me KSR would of paid attention to both those details, so interesting info. Won't be the last time you'll see a repro W lid advertised as original though. Someone will still try to make $100+ just by priming one or putting a fake surface rusted patina on one. Whether you are happy or not these are here its just part of the deal from now on as mentioned earlier. So if there really are differences here folks everyone should know about it.

As for repro early fenders and pans and such I wouldn't hold your breath. There are plenty of players that could of made this happen already, if the economics made sense it would of been done. Folks get excited when they see someone pony up big bucks for decklid tooling but I'm of the opinion it will be an expensive lesson learned on these, nice demonstration of whats possible though.

Now to spin this constructively, if folks are really serious about fenders and pans, all it really takes is someone compiling a spreadsheet of firm buyers, just like the split registry going on right now, easy right? KSR is a serious business, they took a less than calculated risk on these W lids in my opinion, so if the list gets large enough to quantify the cost of the tools and the time/effort, it just takes their guesswork out of making this costly decision. Get a several hundred buyers listed and committed and maybe it might happen.

Wed Jul 09, 2008 8:08 pm

splitjunkie wrote: real or repro?

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=620029

It's not one of KSR's. There has only been one sedan lid come in and it wasn't sold to that guy. It was also sold after this ad was posted. So unless someone else has been repopping lids, that one is OEM.

The next shipment of lids should be here on the 22nd, and so far about a dozen folks put in there deposits. As soon as these start getting around, you'll hear nothing but good about them.

-jeffrey

Fri Jul 11, 2008 8:33 am

Hello,

That's my ad. It is an original decklid, not a repro.

I'm open to offers!

Thanks,

Mon Jul 21, 2008 1:25 pm

For those interested, the 56-57 vert lids are in, send me a PM if you would like to know more.

-jeffrey

Wed Jul 23, 2008 3:00 pm

splitjunkie wrote: 56vwrag wrote: splitjunkie wrote: real or repro?

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=620029

repop

the spot welds are very messy like the repops and the top of the main pressing is sharp not rounded like the repops but it looks like it was sprayed with the primer not dipped like the repops so i dont know

He says the hinge plate and the bottom reinforcement were removed and reinstalled.

Any w decklid that is in black primer is suspect now.

I am not complaining. I am glad that these deck lids are being reproduced. But it will make it more interesting when buying a really cherry "original".

This is not a repro deck lid. I am the one who is posting it for sale. The decklid as an original german deck lid that I completely stripped, straightened out and reassembled. I don't understand your statment of a decklid in black primer being suspect. Since this was going on a car, it was epoxy primered like the genuine fenders, hood, doors, and body.
This was going on my car, until I found a convertible decklid, which is why I am now selling this one.

Check the link with attached pictures and you'll see it's the genuine article. If you have any further questions contact me directly instead of making false statements regarding my ad.

Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:00 am

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=640857

"..as these will be made in a low production / limited amount "

Somehow I don't think supply will be an issue with these. With the tooling costs involved, the manufacturer will make as many as he can sell, I am sure.

Are these really coated with "EDPM primer"? EPDM primer is a rubber roof, cleaner solvent/primer for rubber roofs. What is EDPM primer??

Thu Jul 24, 2008 12:21 pm

johnshenry wrote: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=640857

"..as these will be made in a low production / limited amount "

Somehow I don't think supply will be an issue with these. With the tooling costs involved, the manufacturer will make as many as he can sell, I am sure.

I disagree actually. Sure large volume tooling may exist but unless there is a sustainable forecastable demand don't expect a fluid supply of these long term or maybe even mid term which is my bet. As I see it this is a unique situation where the manufacturer is in the catbird seat and controls the reins here. Its a serious operation that just happens to be selling the lids, this is not an outsourced business model where large volume purchase minimums are required.

I would ballpark for all kinds of reasons therefore that a decent size original run has been made to seed the initial market and the various reseller markets globally, but not a typical volume run for something of this breadth. After that if the numbers don't prove out that will be it for these in my opinion, though its possible with shelved tooling that a run be made every few years or more down the road but don't count on it.

Reason being we're not talking about small hand made widgets made in sweatshops. Getting these made would likely require measureable coordinated activity, to secure large raw materials, to set up and dial in the lines, manage quality control, finish, and then package. You simply wouldn't want to run these assembly lines unless you were making alot at once. Keep in mind these are bulky, require large storage space, and expensive to ship in small quantities.

These are great lids, can't overlook that fact, but the market is only so big. So my strong suggestion here is that if you want one or think you'll ever want one, for a car, or just for your wall to make you smile at night, now is the time to buy one. It won't matter that the tooling may now exist forever, if it doesn't make sense to run them again from many business perspectives the tooling is a write off.

Thu Jul 24, 2008 9:49 pm

OK i just seen another company about to make these split vert decklids :!: So how come it took you guys so long to make this happen.........