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Wed Jul 02, 2008 9:08 pm

Bruce wrote: Where's your proof they don't exist?

Dude. Seriously. Are you always like this or what?

Pretty straight forward question I think.

This is a simple query.

From talking to a few people over the past months, most of which are reliable "elder" sources in the hobby, I have basically gather this...

There aren't any. Never made. The only ones out there are clips, but those that have done this to them are either in denial, or they are afraid of impacting the value of the car by disclosing to the world that they are fakes. Nobody has actually ever seen a real one.

So, again, the fact that people all over the world have chimed in via PMs etc. leads me to believe that the car doesn't exist.

Bruce, I'm not sure what your angle is on this aside from chiming in with absolutely no information on the subject whatsoever, for no apparent reason.

Wed Jul 02, 2008 9:35 pm

This is a stupid argument.

FACT - VW sold RHD split window beetle sunroofs. They are known as 11H's. Of the 2200 cars in the registry, there is ONE. 1-300675. But, the fact is, VW gave a designation for a RHD split window ragtop.

To think that they just stopped making RHD ragtops is unsupportable. If anything, the fact that they made them as dual glove box cars would argue toward the fact that they were produced rather than not produced. Unless somebody on this board worked every shift at every factory that produced a RHD beetle during zwitter production, nobody, and I do mean nobody can say authoritatively they they were or were not built. Just because you can't find one, doesn't mean it wasn't there. You are pretty dull if your argument is because you can't find one today. There are less than 2,500 cars in the registry, out of how many cars built from 1939 to 1953?

Wed Jul 02, 2008 9:37 pm

55reasons wrote: From talking to a few people over the past months, most of which are reliable "elder" sources in the hobby, I have basically gather this...

This is classic. Just because they are around for awhile, they must know the specifics of every VW ever built. Weak.

Wed Jul 02, 2008 11:32 pm

55reasons wrote: Bruce wrote: Where's your proof they don't exist?

Dude. Seriously. Are you always like this or what? I guess I'm a "glass is half full" type. That makes you a "glass is half empty" person.

55reasons wrote: Pretty straight forward question I think.

This is a simple query.
There's nothing wrong with asking, "Hey, has anyone ever seen a RHD Sunroof Zwitter?" It's your silly conclusion based on a lackluster response that is quite laughable.

55reasons wrote: From talking to a few people over the past months, most of which are reliable "elder" sources in the hobby, I have basically gather this...

There aren't any. Never made. The only ones out there are clips, but those that have done this to them are either in denial, or they are afraid of impacting the value of the car by disclosing to the world that they are fakes. Nobody has actually ever seen a real one.

So, again, the fact that people all over the world have chimed in via PMs etc. leads me to believe that the car doesn't exist. Several years ago I read an article about the survival of old cars. In there they said typically 1-2% of any car made may survive into collector life. Some cars more (anything made by Ferrari), some cars less (Ford Pintos, for example). The fact that you can't find one today doesn't mean there wasn't at least 1 RHD Zwitter with a Sunroof in that other 98% of the Zwitters that didn't survive. Think about this, having that big hole hurts survivability due to leakage and rusting. Also consider that most of them would have gone to England. They invented rust. Same goes for Sweden.

55reasons wrote: Bruce, I'm not sure what your angle is on this aside from chiming in with absolutely no information on the subject whatsoever, for no apparent reason. Well, I'm not sure what your angle is on this either. You provide absolutely NO PROOF that they weren't made. Why the big hard-on to disprove their existance?

Thu Jul 03, 2008 10:46 am

:roll: I was going to stay out of this but I'll throw in my 2 cents.

Just because VW produced a "number" for the RHD sunroof doesn't mean they produced any Zwitter ones. (You can buy a lot of Colorado Rockies World Champion hats. and years from now someone will swear they won the World Series.) Just because a person listed his RHD 11H on a register, doesn't mean it's a real one either. Personally, I would like to see that car and measure the spot welds in the sunroof and compare them with known original "factory" split examples. Anybody can cut in a three fold and change the numbers. It's been done before and we all know it. If it's a matter of faith................choose your own answer; I would like more facts with some known comparabilities.

Thu Jul 03, 2008 11:20 am

53 0val wrote: :roll: I was going to stay out of this but I'll throw in my 2 cents.

Just because VW produced a "number" for the RHD sunroof doesn't mean they produced any Zwitter ones. (You can buy a lot of Colorado Rockies World Champion hats. and years from now someone will swear they won the World Series.) Just because a person listed his RHD 11H on a register, doesn't mean it's a real one either. Personally, I would like to see that car and measure the spot welds in the sunroof and compare them with known original "factory" split examples. Anybody can cut in a three fold and change the numbers. It's been done before and we all know it. If it's a matter of faith................choose your own answer; I would like more facts with some known comparabilities.

I call shenanigans. Why in the world would VW created an 11H designation if they were never built? Makes no freakin sense Bob. FACT - VW built RHD cars in 1952/53. Stands to reason a few of them were ragtops. I'm not saying the 11H on the registry is confirmed real, but VW made them. The absense of one 50 years later doesn't mean shit.

Thu Jul 03, 2008 11:51 am

53 0val wrote: There are more around than were ever made. :wink:

I agree :lol:

Even though I am sure some were most likely made also.
Not seen one myself yet either but also interested to find out how many there are about/known, as per the original thread starter.

I know of a brown so claimed RHD 'zwitter ragtop' being built in uk at the moment ( non-stock) and I can tell you it is neither a real ragtop OR a real zwitter :lol: It will be interesting to see how it is 'shown' when that day comes.

Since the uk oracle Mr Oakley made me realise that there are hardly any rhd splits at all! I now laugh every time I see a non stock one of which more & more keep 'appearing' :lol:

I once saw an OG orange paint NZ oval in the metal, and I found it hard to believe with my own eyes even right there faced with the evidence! that beetles were painted orange so early! But it was definitely OG. Very recently another orange NZ oval was for sale here in uk. So there are a few more than I ever thought possible!

Thu Jul 03, 2008 12:08 pm

Maybe I misunderstood you Kevin. 11H means RHD sunroof? Or does it mean RHD "ZWITTER" sunroof? That number does not mean a thing unless it designates the period they were produced.

Thu Jul 03, 2008 12:13 pm

An interesting thought; They made even the early cars with provisions for easily making a RHD model. Dual access plates up front, column hole location under dash, pedal embossments, high beam location, etc. I figure they planned on it all along. The sunroof thing is just the chance of two rare items occuring at the same time.

Thu Jul 03, 2008 1:18 pm

53 0val wrote: Maybe I misunderstood you Kevin. 11H means RHD sunroof? Or does it mean RHD "ZWITTER" sunroof? That number does not mean a thing unless it designates the period they were produced.

It means RHD sunroof and was used until they changed the type convention over in the mid 50's. As I hope you know Bob, VW never designated between a "split" and a "zwitter".

This is a useless arguement - as I stated in my first post - you CAN'T prove the didn't build them and I CAN'T prove they did. BUT, VW made a designation for them in from 1950 onward.

Thu Jul 03, 2008 1:24 pm

Wasn't this fun.................. :?:

Thu Jul 03, 2008 1:24 pm

Thu Jul 03, 2008 1:27 pm

billb wrote:

Explain!

Thu Jul 03, 2008 1:31 pm

billb wrote:

Reversed the print....... :wink:

Thu Jul 03, 2008 1:51 pm

53 0val wrote: billb wrote:

Reversed the print....... :wink:

Yeah, same view, but with the decklid open, please. ;)

Thu Jul 03, 2008 2:00 pm

the taillights are too high.

Thu Jul 03, 2008 2:19 pm

Wiggy wrote: the taillights are too high.

Which suggest the fenders were probably replaced.

Thu Jul 03, 2008 2:47 pm

I was just "taking the piss" as the English would say. It is a photoshop job. :)

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=447122

Thu Jul 03, 2008 2:54 pm

You're a bloody 'Wanker', as the English would say. 8)

Thu Jul 03, 2008 2:54 pm

billb wrote: I was just "taking the piss" as the English would say. It is a photoshop job. :)

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=447122

Well you pissed on yourself. It didn't fool anybody in here. :wink: