TheSamba.com :: View topic

Mon Jun 02, 2008 2:40 pm

My 63 Bus needs a new tranny (fourth is popping out.) I want to take this opportunity to get better gearing. I did a lot of research by searching older threads, and at this moment, I'm leaning toward a stock 67 Bus tranny with RGB's.

My questions are; can my 63 trans be re-geared with 67 gears or must I buy a 67 tranny? I don't want a freeway flyer because I don't have the motor to push its 4th.

Mon Jun 02, 2008 4:59 pm

Just go with the 67 trans like you said. I think they are all the same ring and pinion after 63 1/2 with the big 46 mm stub axles. The big stub reduction gear boxes are what you need..................dont change anything else without seeking guidance such as Bill at Arizona Transaxle in Phx. He can tell you if a ring and pinion change would be wise..........but since the big stubs are geared for a 1500 they should be the best overall for your bus. A freeway flyer is just going to make you shift into 3rd earlier on a hill. The goal is to get the bus to climb relatively easy hills in 4th without lugging the motor. That makes for most pleasant driving.

Mon Jun 02, 2008 6:42 pm

If you invest in a FF tranny now you can start building your bigger better engine to work with it later.
Right now running a 1641 SP with 3.875 R&P FF and .82 4th, and love it in the 1960 walk thru panel camper conversion.
Have run our SC with a big bore 40 HP engine and same FF tranny with no problems. Just had to shift down to 45 MPH on the hills sooner. Even then did shorter time on the hilly Olympia to Seattle run than when with the stock 1960-63 geared tranny.

Mon Jun 02, 2008 7:40 pm

Thanks for the replies. One good thing is that hills are not a concern of mine, here in FL. The extent of my knowledge of transaxles and gearing is very limited. E&B, what is the top speed in your 60 w/t with that gearing setup? I'm not looking for a huge jump in gearing, just a bit more than what I now have. Whenever I get on the interstate, I can usually coax the Bus up to about 65 mph; any more and it sounds like it wants to explode. I'm comfortable with it at that speed; I just want the ability to get it up to 75 if needed.

Mon Jun 02, 2008 8:15 pm

My advice would be to get a 'stock' 67 tranny. Then from there you have 2 choices. Big nut RGB, or small nut RGB. I would say either is OK.
Since you already have (or should have small nut RGB) I would install the 67 geared tranny and let it ride.
If want to upgrade to big nut RGB there are 2 advantages 1) slightly better gearing for the motor, 2) larger rear brakes. One reason besides the obvious (gear ratios) for the '67' tranny is that a 12v flywheel will fit without issues.
The way I look at it, is that VW made improvements over the years. Different gears, bigger brakes, different RGBs. Im not smart enough to out think the VW engineers, so I try to copy improvements as they implemented them. In other words, match a 1600, with the 67 gear ratios and big nut RGBs.

Mon Jun 02, 2008 9:36 pm

Found for us that running the engine at 3,000 RPM is best, and going above that the engine oil temp goes up too much in warm weather. So @ 3,000 RPM with stock 1960-63 tranny did 47 MPH, and 3,800 RPM @ 55 MPH. With FF tranny speed jumped to 58 MPH @ 3,000 RPM. Stock tranny 100 RPM increase resulted in 1 MPH increase in fourth gear. With FF tranny result is 2 MPH increase. Have done 70 MPH for short bursts @ about 3,600 RPM.
Went with the later RGBs both for the slightly higher gearing, and 20% bigger brakes.
Upgraded the cooling system with DH tin, and type 4 cooler, 35mm wide cooling fan, "D" crank pulley, and 356 gen pulley, for more air blown not only through the cooler, but around the heads also.
Was nice to go from 19 MPG with stock gearing doing 55 MPH to 27 MPG doing 58 MPH with big bore 40 HP. Now getting 23 MPG with the 1641.

Mon Jun 02, 2008 11:58 pm

I have a 1967 transaxle in my 1963 camper, and I like it. When I bought the bus for $400, it came with a newly rebuilt 1967 bus center section but he had put the 1963 one ton RGBs on it with the one year only brake drum. After I restored the bus, I drove it for over one year, then rebuilt and installed a set of big stub axle RGBs with axle tubes on it. The advantages to this setup is that the RGB has a thicker stub axle, and it is held on by a "peening" nut and its outer bearing is a roller bearing, bigger brake, 12 volt bell housing, and somewhat higher gearing.
My 1967 bus, which I parked four years ago and am now re-restoring, had a 1967 transaxle in it, which I bought newly rebuilt by Volkstrans North back in about 1985. I drove that sucker all of those years but it gradually began popping out of fourth gear more and more, so I am going to rebuild it.

Tue Jun 03, 2008 7:49 am

1) yes you can have the '67' gears put in a '63 tranny.

I figure by '67 gears', you mean a 4.12 r/p, a bus (.82) 4th and big nut boxes.
a 1600 will push that set up well. It is really good gearing for a 1600.

Just be aware that "Freeway Flyer' means anything higher geared than stock, and can be a 4th gear, or a ring/pinion, but it doesn't specify a certain gearing.
While E&B like their set up, I think I would want a bigger motor with that gearing. I personally don't want a bigger motor, and don't want to hassle with dual carbs, so after my one 3.88 r/p trans I don't feel like doing that again. It made the motor feel a bit wimpy.
( I have ridden in their bus, but I have not driven it)

You can also use the link in my sig to find out your current gearing. What do you have now?
Then you can compare how many notches you want the change the gearing.

We have a '63 trans in the '56 westy, with the 1 ton little big nut boxes.
I like the gearing with a 1600 and the 15" rims.
Oh, ya, what tire sizes are you running?

(edited to fix what Campy said)

Tue Jun 03, 2008 1:02 pm

Clara, did you mean that "freeway flyer" means higher gearing than stock gearing? You had "lower."

Tue Jun 03, 2008 2:03 pm

I have to agree with Clara. I ran the same setup as E&B for years, and while it's awesome for highway driving, IMO a stock engine just flat out does not have the balls to push such tall gearing.

I would recommend the 4.12 r&p with a .82 4th and big nut RGB's. Pretty much just a stock big nut rear end. It's worked great in countless buses out there, so why not one more?

Tue Jun 03, 2008 4:13 pm

Clara wrote: You can also use the link in my sig to find out your current gearing. What do you have now?
Then you can compare how many notches you want the change the gearing.
I'm not sure what I have at the moment; I'm guessing what came stock for 63. When I get a chance, I will try the method described in your signatures link.

Clara wrote: We have a '63 trans in the '56 westy, with the 1 ton little big nut boxes.
I like the gearing with a 1600 and the 15" rims.
Oh, ya, what tire sizes are you running?
I'm running 15" rims.

Andrew wrote: I would recommend the 4.12 r&p with a .82 4th and big nut RGB's. Pretty much just a stock big nut rear end. It's worked great in countless buses out there, so why not one more?
Ok, now I have something to go on. Was 63 a transition year from small nut to large? I thought I read that somewhere. My Bus is a later 63 so hopefully I already have the big nut. Thanks again, everybody.

Tue Jun 03, 2008 6:36 pm

Check, don't guess on your gearing. There is a high likelihood that at some point in the last 45 years the tranny wore out and someone swapped another in..

Tire size makes a difference too. Check out
http://www.miata.net/garage/tirecalcold.html
I run 205 75 R15 (radial) or 6.40x15 (bias ply) on the 15" bus rims.

Yes, '63 is a transition year for Reduction Gearing. Some 63s came with the 1 ton option, with a one year only 'little big nut' one ton RGB system and the 1500 engine.
Some came with the 3/4 ton regular little nut RGBs and the 40hp engine.

some RGB info:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=263188&highlight=official

Thu Jul 03, 2008 9:50 pm

Can someone please clarify for me what the "little big nut boxes" are and how to identify them.
I will soon be getting a 59 DD panel from a buddy which has a straight axle kit that I will be pulling out and I'm trying to figure out which reduction box setup I want to put back in with my 1641 stock carb engine.
I have access to a couple of small nut setups but am not sure what is what.
With a pre-63 reduction box trans and correct tall 15" wheels/tires, what kind of rpm's can be expected? What is the stock R&P ratio's on the bus trans?
Mike

Fri Jul 04, 2008 8:54 am

Little big nut RGBs have the 3/4 ton sized 36 mm axle nuts, but has special 1963 one year only 1 ton gearing and brake shoes used in 1964-67 one ton suspension. Problem with this 1963 only suspension is a lot of the parts are very hard to find. See parts manuals through vintagebus.com website for part number so you can ID them.

Once VW went to tunnel tranny in 19 May 59 the R&P was a 8:33, and 25/18 reduction gears. Which got 47 MPH @ 3,000 RPM in fourth gear, and 55 @ 3,800 RPM.

Fri Jul 04, 2008 9:45 am

Here's one more vote for the 4:12 Ring and Pinion and big nut boxes. I run 28" tall tires and the 4:12 has more than enough balls to push them up any hill I want to go up. (the stroker motor helps too)

One thing to keep in mind is: How fast do you really want / need to go? Having driven a stock height bus with completely rebuilt / renewed suspension I can say around 65 is the max "safe" speed in my mind. Things start to get real busy and unstable above 65. Also think about panic-stopping from 75 with stock brakes...

Sat Jul 05, 2008 8:14 am

Ok, so I am a bit confused. All of the bus trannies from 59-67 use a 4.12 R&P or only the 64-67's?
Mike

Sat Jul 05, 2008 8:41 pm

Runboy wrote: Ok, so I am a bit confused. All of the bus trannies from 59-67 use a 4.12 R&P or only the 64-67's?
Mike
Some of the tunnel cased split buses used a 4.375 ring and pinion (8 teeth on the pinion, 35 teeth on the ring)
Some of them used a 4.12 ring and pinion (8 on the pinion, 33 on the ring)
People can retro fit a later beetle 3.88 r&p in there (8 teeth on the pinion, 35 teeth on the ring)

Since your bus is 40+ years old, odds are that at some point the trans worn out and may have been replaced, so you can't assume it has the original gearing for the year.

Sat Jul 05, 2008 10:59 pm

Eric&Barb wrote: Little big nut RGBs have the 3/4 ton sized 36 mm axle nuts, but has special 1963 one year only 1 ton gearing and brake shoes used in 1964-67 one ton suspension. Problem with this 1963 only suspension is a lot of the parts are very hard to find. See parts manuals through vintagebus.com website for part number so you can ID them.

Once VW went to tunnel tranny in 19 May 59 the R&P was a 8:33, and 25/18 reduction gears. Which got 47 MPH @ 3,000 RPM in fourth gear, and 55 @ 3,800 RPM.

I was referencing the last bit in this post by Eric&Barb stating that buses from 59 used 4.12 R&P. Some did in fact originally run 4.37 as well?

Clara, the "whats you gearing" link in your signature doesn't seem to be working.

Mike