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Tue Jun 17, 2008 10:26 am

Will a full folw oil pump clear the mounting bracket for non bus engine blocks?
Just wondering if the fittings for the full flow will clear the mounting plate.
There's about 3/4 to 1'' space between the oil pump cover and plate would that be enough?
I don't have my own computer,so it may be some time before I can reply.

Thanks for your help,
Dom

Wed Aug 20, 2008 10:12 am

hightop69 wrote: Will a full folw oil pump clear the mounting bracket for non bus engine blocks?
Just wondering if the fittings for the full flow will clear the mounting plate.
There's about 3/4 to 1'' space between the oil pump cover and plate would that be enough?
I don't have my own computer,so it may be some time before I can reply.

Thanks for your help,
Dom

Yes full flow lines will clear IF you buy the correct parts and even then it's a tight fit. I use hydraulic lines to clear the mustache for two reasons; first they don't come off and spray your oil everywhere, and second the clamps on the oil lines would be very hard to install in between the oil pump cover and the mustache.
I purchased the oil pump, cover with a pressure relief and the correct fittings at Gene Berg Enterprises. link: http://www.geneberg.com/product_info.php?products_id=446

This bus is driven hard ,it's not a show piece so its not perfectly clean, nor are all the parts perfect but the pictures should give you a good idea of how to install a full flow system on your bus. You will have to do some machining to the case too.

^^^^Oil cooler lines installed^^^^

I did have to clearance the mustache just a bit, but the amount of material removed was insignificant and easily done with a grinder.

Wed Aug 20, 2008 10:26 am

Nice setup Tim.

The way I'm reading the OP's question is will a full flow clear the adapter plate for a beetle only case with no mustache bar lugs, the answer to that is no.

Wed Aug 20, 2008 10:58 am

Tim shows the Berg Kit using a Bus block, that is it has the three bosses on the case for the mustache bar. BUT, are you saying you have a case that does not have the bosses, and you are going to use the oil pump modifiaction kit that mates the mustache bar to the oil pump studs and will that clear???? The Berg Kit designed for full flow on the Bus with the upright type 1 engine is the only way to go. But only if you have the Bus case or a universal case I would imagine. Not sure how any other set-up will clear for full flow for the case that doesn't have the three bosses for your mustache bar.

Wed Aug 20, 2008 11:08 am

I misunderstood his question (if he intends on using a bug only engine), not sure if there's enough room. In any case I would never use one of those adapters to hang my engine from.

Wed Aug 20, 2008 12:00 pm

Tim, not to be critical, but you may want to reconsider re-routing your oil lines and upgrading to steel braided teflon. You really don't want to have your lines hanging any lower than your muffler coming off your header. Or at least try the output line from the pump going through the header pipes and the return line back to the case just below the mustache bar. The steel braided teflon stuff can withstand the heat when passing though the header area. But that all depends on where the filter housing is installed. Berg can custom cut/ make lines for you with the steel braided teflon stuff if you give them measurements. Or, if you are close to anyone that can do the same, like a hydraulic supplier, they can too. The last thing you would want to happen is to run over something in the road and have it bounce up and take off one of your oil lines.

Wed Aug 20, 2008 12:12 pm

Jody '71 wrote: Tim, not to be critical, but you may want to reconsider re-routing your oil lines and upgrading to steel braided teflon. You really don't want to have your lines hanging any lower than your muffler coming off your header. Or at least try the output line from the pump going through the header pipes and the return line back to the case just below the mustache bar. The steel braided teflon stuff can withstand the heat when passing though the header area. But that all depends on where the filter housing is installed. Berg can custom cut/ make lines for you with the steel braided teflon stuff if you give them measurements. Or, if you are close to anyone that can do the same, like a hydraulic supplier, they can too. The last thing you would want to happen is to run over something in the road and have it bounce up and take off one of your oil lines.

I appreciate the words of advice but this never goes off-road, and these hydraulic lines are rated at 3200 psi burst and 600 deg temps. Had them made up at a local shop that makes hydraulic lines for front end loaders and bulldozers. I've used the same set up on my bug for 13 years and well over 130,000 miles. I'm confident it will hold up extremely well. Not so sure I'd run the line between the extractor pipes either, I'd think you pick up a lot of heat unnecessarily that way.

Wed Aug 20, 2008 12:45 pm

Then you've got the right setup. My output line passes right through the header with about an inch clearance between both pipes on each side, my oil temp hasn't increased at all, don't have the header wrapped or any heat flange deflectors. Everyone does it differently, but the end result should be proper cleareance for the mustache bar, case tapped properly, pump plugged as need be for full flow and proper installation of lines that will withstand the modification with no loss of oil or pressure.

Wed Aug 20, 2008 1:42 pm

Jody '71 wrote: Everyone does it differently, but the end result should be proper cleareance for the mustache bar, case tapped properly, pump plugged as need be for full flow and proper installation of lines that will withstand the modification with no loss of oil or pressure.

Very true.

Wed Aug 20, 2008 6:08 pm

Jody '71 wrote: The Berg Kit designed for full flow on the Bus with the upright type 1 engine is the only way to go.

Jody- Why do you say Berg? The only advantage I see of a Berg is a means to spend a lot more money. Actually, the Berg pump itself might be great quality. But the full flow cover doesn't matter. There are various other brands that fit in as well or maybe even better. The only critical surface on a pump cover is the flat surface ground mating surface. But I just realized you might be talking Berg because they have the optional cover with a integral relief valve. I havn't yet realized a need for an additional relief valve as the engine allready has that covered. At the same time someone here on the Samba was talking about the Berg relief valve failing. I have been using Schadek pumps. And since they are an aluminum body I also prefer an aluminum full flow cover. However the bus has a cast steel cover.

The teflon hose with the protective braid cover is the nice way to go. I don't have that but rather another type of high temp hose. And the hoses also run between the headers with a bit of protection around them.

Thu Aug 21, 2008 6:34 am

Busman,

I went with the Berg kit cause Nick (NSRacing) that built my 1776 block and did the fullflow for me recommended it. I didn't mean to say it's the only way to go. I ordered it based on his input. Maybe I should have gone cheaper. I initially had the barbed connections and the blue hose like your set-up but later changed over to the steel braided teflon lines for greater longevity and their supposed better ability to withstand heat next to exhaust systems. That was one thing I didn't mind spending more $ on. But all and all, as long as the installation is done properly, whatever works without failure is what the end result should be. That's the best part, and our Bus engines are thanking us for it.

By the way, how do you like the dual mufflers, that looks nice!

Thu Aug 21, 2008 8:35 am

Desertbusman wrote: Jody '71 wrote: The Berg Kit designed for full flow on the Bus with the upright type 1 engine is the only way to go.

Jody- Why do you say Berg? The only advantage I see of a Berg is a means to spend a lot more money. Actually, the Berg pump itself might be great quality. But the full flow cover doesn't matter. There are various other brands that fit in as well or maybe even better. The only critical surface on a pump cover is the flat surface ground mating surface. But I just realized you might be talking Berg because they have the optional cover with a integral relief valve. I havn't yet realized a need for an additional relief valve as the engine allready has that covered. At the same time someone here on the Samba was talking about the Berg relief valve failing. I have been using Schadek pumps. And since they are an aluminum body I also prefer an aluminum full flow cover. However the bus has a cast steel cover.

The teflon hose with the protective braid cover is the nice way to go. I don't have that but rather another type of high temp hose. And the hoses also run between the headers with a bit of protection around them.

Hey Desertbusman -

Can you post a few more detailed pics of your filter mounting set-up? I'm about to mount a filter for a 1776 in a '71 Westy and want to use that exact same filter mounting location.

Thanks so much!

Chris

Fri Aug 22, 2008 8:49 am

Jody,
I didn't mean to have sounded at all critical of your choice of pumps. I'm sure you make very good decisions on your bus. And with Nick's recommendation that pretty much nails it. I was just a bit 'fraid that someone else might think a Berg pump is necessary to full flow.
Our top engine guy around here is a Berg man. And our Samba Glenn seems strictly Berg. And some friends roam the swap meets looking for deals on Berg shifters. My finances absolutely won't allow me to use Berg's products. And truthfully I havn't seen a need or even much advantage in spending the additional money. But that might all be changing with the influx of Chinese products.
Pump covers- There wern't any that seemed to be wonderfully suited for a bus so I did my own to eliminate the commom plumbing hassles.
And yes, a bus has to be so much happier with the good filtration. And the full flow seems to be the best way to accomplish it. But, being in the Arizona heat, the remote filter and added oil capacity, are very important to me for added cooling. All the critics of that attitude sure don't have to do it to their busses.
The dual Thunderbirds are fun. It surely doesn't whistle like the pea shooters on my bug. Yesterday I tuned a friends 1600 SP bus which had a single quiet pack and his seemed a lot more tame. These duals are considerably louder. Always sets off my bugs alarm and my neighbors don't appreciate it. On the highway I get the impression that it really enhances the engines performance. It's not a wimpy exhaust.

Chris- (nice wilderness pics. Good looking bus!)
We mounted the filter vertically in the same location on Pollys bus. However on mine it's horizontal to keep further away from the muffler. Either way you have to put a drip pan under it to change the filter. Vertical might give a tad more cooling Maybe also a bit more vunerable. Either way neither have gotten any dirt or junk kicked up from the wheel. It's the common type filter mount that Bugpac and EMPI have. Of the 3 configurations (connections on top, left side or right side) I think mine is the left side. The extra tee filling is for connecting a test pressure gauge. The mount just bolts to the bottom side of the auxilary battery tray. Work out your hoses and fittings before you finalize the exact location.

Fri Aug 22, 2008 10:31 am

The reason I went with the Berg cover this time is I had an aluminum cover crack on me last go around. I've been using pipe fittings for years and know when to stop tightening, was just a weak casting or flaw. My other full flow system has an aluminum cover that was installed many years ago and its never given me any problems.

Fri Aug 22, 2008 12:57 pm

Desertbusman wrote:

Chris- (nice wilderness pics. Good looking bus!)
We mounted the filter vertically in the same location on Pollys bus. However on mine it's horizontal to keep further away from the muffler. Either way you have to put a drip pan under it to change the filter. Vertical might give a tad more cooling Maybe also a bit more vunerable. Either way neither have gotten any dirt or junk kicked up from the wheel. It's the common type filter mount that Bugpac and EMPI have. Of the 3 configurations (connections on top, left side or right side) I think mine is the left side. The extra tee filling is for connecting a test pressure gauge. The mount just bolts to the bottom side of the auxilary battery tray. Work out your hoses and fittings before you finalize the exact location.

Thanks for the dibs on the pics and the Bus! I have to give you some for your underside - it's a legend in my mind...

I have a mount and fittings coming from aircooled.net - I'll see how they work. I got the fittings on the right side...

I like the horizontal mount for both safety and aesthetics. I may have ventured beyond stock now but I like to look stock still. Almost cooler that way.

Fri Aug 22, 2008 6:46 pm

WOW… I thought this post was a lost cause, thanks for all the replies. Originally posted in June. Thanks to Timgud for resurrecting it from the dead.

Busdaddy was right on with what I was trying to explain and the answer I was looking for. Thanks.

The engine I’ll be stabbing in next week end is of questionable condition… PO “ I opened it up and it looked good, so I clean it up and put new seals….I would call it buttered up.” Upon turning the key I’ll be thinking the worst and hoping for the best.

Dom