TheSamba.com :: View topic - 1st VW in the US

Fri Jun 20, 2008 8:45 pm

Over the years I'd wonder time to time when the first actual VW came into the US, I had heard stories of post war servicemen shipping a few KDF cars back here to the US as early as 46, my dad almost did that when he was stationed in Hannover just post war, and I believe a few of those stories had been discussed here prior. But I had always wondered also what might have been done with captured military vehicles and if there was a chance one made it back during the war somehow, to be evaluated, etc.

So incidently today, thumbing through December 1960 Road & Track I came across a feature article indicating the first VW "imported" to the US was a complete running 43' kubelwagen, brought here in November 1944, following its capture from an enemy supply depot in Italy, then stowed on a supply freighter back here by an undisclosed named (on purpose it said) lieutenant who bartered for it, and it landed in Staten Island at the US Naval Frontier Base, where it sat unclaimed for weeks, and then was noticed and eventually added to a stewarded war material inventory by a Lieutenant Kogel.

Shortly thereafter this second Lieutenant stewarding the kubel reversed its status as war material and through some paperwork shuffle it was given to another military friend named A.S. Kramer who was located at the military training center in Sampson, NY. To avoid controversy it was shipped 350 miles up there inside a large service truck, and then it was actually put on service duty at the base in upstate New York. Weirdly enough shortly thereafter the father of the first Lieutenant that stowed the kubel on the supply freighter, was a fire chief stationed in Sampson, recognized the kubel based on his son's description of it and some work he had done to fix it up some during transit, and somehow through some other paperwork shuffle the kubel ended up being given back to the family of the first Lieutenant. Its last known residence is somewhere in upstate New York.

Incidentally too, and perhaps valuable info here for someone out there, during its import inspection here, it was documented as; Volkswagen USN 8669 NTS, complete with 4 USN 600x16 tires, 1 German 5.25 x 16, Type 82, Year 1943, Engine # 685, Serial# 2-019591, 1 USN Willard Battery. Then a list of repairs needed were listed. So maybe this kubel is still out there and here is the history on it. Will post a pic of the article sometime this weekend, very interesting to stumble upon.

Last thing I never knew but makes sense, the article mentioned that while its common knowledge that the kubel is referred to as the German Jeep, more so perhaps than most realize, it mentioned the kubel wheels, tires, and spark plugs were interchangeable with our US Jeeps, for purposefully making cannibalizing on the field a practicality.

Never know what you run across in these old mags.

Fri Jun 20, 2008 9:16 pm

the hunt is on...

Very cool, esp. the parts interchangeability.

Fri Jun 20, 2008 11:33 pm

I thought the 1st captured VW (a Kubel) during the war was brought over to US for testing (I heard it was shipped to Aberdeen proving grounds in Maryland??). According to Aberdeen Proving Ground's miltary vehicle museum site they have a Kubel there, not sure if it's the same one or not? I used to live 20 minutes from there but never went for some reason but always wanted to.

Sat Jun 21, 2008 1:27 am

Kubel Nick wrote: I thought the 1st captured VW (a Kubel) during the war was brought over to US for testing (I heard it was shipped to Aberdeen proving grounds in Maryland??). According to Aberdeen Proving Ground's miltary vehicle museum site they have a Kubel there, not sure if it's the same one or not? I used to live 20 minutes from there but never went for some reason but always wanted to.

Well you're not that much further now... get goin!
I'll ride w/ ya if ya need some moral support :D

Sat Jun 21, 2008 9:06 am

It would be nice to find that Kubel in the article if it does indeed still exist.
That car should still have the Early Pod dash (if I remember my kubel stuff corretly.)
According to the car's serial number it was built around April of 43'.

Sat Jun 21, 2008 9:15 am

This is an interesting story. I have a number of comments, some of which are contradictory.

There is indeed a kubel at aberdeen; I don't know the year, but it's '43 or later and has DAK markings. I also don't know its story, but it contains a number of modifications that look post-war, though it's not out of the question that they could have occurred in an allied motor pool before the car was brought back for testing. Also, it has a strange headlight modification (different type of headlights, mounted on the body rather than fender, and fender mount completely filled in) that I have also seen in another wartime article about the kubelwagen. That article shows a photo of a car that is definitely not the aberdeen car, but with the same unusual headlight modification. Finally, the U.S. ordnance manual on the kubelwagen (TM E9-803) is based on yet a different car, and it's clearly an earlier model than the two mentioned above, and with DAK markings. I don't know where that car was examined, but if it was done in the states, then it was certainly before 11/44 since the manual was first published on 6/6/44, so that would contradict the suggestion that the car that this thread is about was the first one imported. The TM E9-803 car looks very original, but it does have U.S. jeep tail lights, which I suppose could have been added by either the germans or the allies.

Also, although jeep tires can be used on kubelwagen wheels (I've done that), the wheels themselves do not interchange. Kubelwagen tires will probably fit on jeep rims, but I have never seen any evidence of this being done. I'm too lazy to go out and compare the spark plugs. Anyway, if there was actually any intent to make the parts interchangeable, it must have been on the part of the U.S., since the kubelwagen was in action before the jeep was conceived. Since the jeep was designed in 1940, they would have had to have an example of a kubelwagen (or at least a volkswagen) at least that early, or some other form of technical specification. But it would not be surprising for such interchangeability to be coincidental since Ford engineers were consulted during the design of the volkswagen. Maybe that's why a car where most everything else is metric has 16x3 *inch* wheels.

So there seem to be some holes in some of this. However, the article I refered to above, which I can't find at the moment, was wrong about a number of things as welll so that's not surprising. Popular-type articles like that are produced by writers with no specific technical expertise who often misinterpret the information that they receive from the experts that they interview.

-joe

Sat Jun 21, 2008 9:55 am

To Gary's point, there may have been captured Kubels brought to the USA for military testing (the Army Manual almost guarantees that), but the one Gary mentions would almost certainly be the first one to ever enter private hands.

So even if there were earlier military vehicles, this may well be the first privately owned VW in the USA which would make it pretty special.

You have to admire the balls it would have taken to smuggle an entire car back home. Most soldiers managed a Luger or maybe some medals and called it a day.

Sat Jun 21, 2008 11:03 am

I have a page from a motor magazine from march 1943 that shows a kubelwagen with north africa logos next to a jeep and there is snow on the ground. I assume that the picture was taken in the USA, and not north africa. they mention that it was a captured kubel. the license plate reads WH 243_2_. is this the maryland kubel?

Sat Jun 21, 2008 11:18 am

So regardless of the import date, what is the oldest vw in the US?
And is the oldest in Europe a 41 in the Von Schmelling collection?

Sat Jun 21, 2008 11:34 am

The oldest vw in the US is an early 1940 Kubel owned by Dave Crompton. It even have some prototype features on it.

Wed Jun 25, 2008 6:51 pm

Good Evening, Guys,

As a reminder, that US War Department Technical Manual referenced in an earlier post was reprinted 36 years ago by Post-ERA Motorbooks. I did a quick search using the ISBN and found only one copy available. I've had my copy since the early 1970s when my interest in VWs was just beginning.

I looked to see if I could find a chassis or engine number, but a quick look proved fruitless. You guys are into this WAY beyond my level; keep up the interesting work!

Art LeBrun
vwtecheditor

Thu Jun 26, 2008 4:21 am

I thought I'd try searching "The New York Times" online archive to see what it would throw out.

"Kubelwagen" retured nothing in the pre 1980 search but "German Jeep" produced 8 articles ranging from July 1944 to October 1961.

You need to register to download the articles but it costs and I'm too much of a cheapskate to do it.

Perhaps someone would like to read the articles enough to pay for them. :D

Search Results

Fri Jun 27, 2008 7:11 am

Sorry for the delay with the pic of the article. Was holding out some hope someone would know about this kubel but maybe eventually. Found this interesting since it was the first documented trail of when a VW landed here that I had ever heard or run across. Its reasonable to think another few got in earlier from various military operations. Anyways, a couple pics from R&T 1961:

Sat Jun 28, 2008 9:59 pm

I have both the magazine article and the book. The car seen didassembled in the U.S. Army field manual for captured enemy rolling stock is the Aberdeen Kubel. The one that ended up in New York is a different car, and I have heard that this car is still around. It may have come up for sale several years ago.

As far as interchangable parts, the U.S. War Department had this to say:

Since this materiel is of German manufacture, replacement of various units with corresponding units of American manufacture is limited to minor parts which can be adapted for use on this vehicle by improvising mounting facilities. Examples of such replacement units: headlights, coil, wiring, and some instruments in the instrument panel. Otherwise parts replacement will have to be handled by cannibalization.