TheSamba.com :: View topic - RIP

Mon Jun 30, 2008 11:46 am

A couple of weeks ago on my way to Telluride, I blew a tire at 75 MPH in central Idaho and rolled our syncro adventurewagen. Fortunately, I walked away without a scratch. I am amazed at how well the van held together. The roof came completely off but all the doors opened except for the rear hatch. Other than front/rear windshields and the drivers door, the rest of the glass is intact.

Unfortunately, it is totaled. I haven't gotten any figures from the insurance company yet but I'm sure I'll be fighting them for a while. Ideally, I would like to retain the salvage rights to it and either bring it home or find someone in the Boise/Salt Lake area that needs a good parts vehicle. There is a brand new GW 2.5 (1500 miles!!). The drive train should be in good shape along with the seats and some good glass, etc. I don't have any off street parking so I'm not sure how I would really part it out myself without pissing off my neighbors. I'll post in the classifieds when things are resolved but the van is in Mountain Home Idaho - if anyone is interested, let me know.

I've been driving bussess/vans for the last 20 years and only recently discovered The Samba. I'm grateful for all the help I've received over the last couple of months - this is a great group. I probably won't be buying another van in the near future (unless I win the lottery or get full insurance value) - This seems like a good time to go down to 1 vehicle for a while. I'm sure I'll be a lurker here though!

Thanks and Cheers! And remember, shiny side up!!

Pete

Mon Jun 30, 2008 12:03 pm

Just wondering what tires you were running, how old they were, and if you knew why one blew?

Mon Jun 30, 2008 12:11 pm

I was running the Wild Cats from Les Shwab (made by Dean I think). I've always been anal about tires. They had less then 10,000 miles on them and had an excellent tread. I had just inflated them to 45 PSI. I was well within the load limit and have never had problems with them before. They are light truck tires and have the reinforced side walls rated for 1580 lbs per tire. The tire was badly shredded. There was pretty much nothing left of it. I don't believe I hit anything to cause it. The van had been pulling hard to the right beforehand but that was was from the wind. It might have been enough to shift enough of the weight to that tire to overload it but I don't think so. We've been doing that kind of driving for years without any problems. I think it was defective.

Mon Jun 30, 2008 12:16 pm

no offense, and i don't want to kick you when your down, but the wildcats from LS are cheap pieces of shit! BTDT!
Sorry to hear about the damage and thank GOD you are okay, tire blow outs are a big fear of mine. Suprised to hear the van had flipped. Hope this is not what commonly happens with high speed blow outs.

Mon Jun 30, 2008 12:33 pm

Well, that causes me concern because I've got the same tires on the Wolfsburg! They seem to ride fine when they have air in them and they're all round & stuff. Candyman; What failure did you have that leads you to believe they are CPOS? If they're dangerous then I want to get them off my van before I put it back on the road but I wasn't finding any negative information on them when I bought them.
From Pete's description of the failure, I was wondering if the failing tire had already started leaking, which could over heated/stressed it until it failed. If it was just a random defect... that's damn scary!

Pete, I hope you at least had a good time at the BG fest, despite the fact that you had this cloud hanging over the trip.

Mon Jun 30, 2008 1:34 pm

Volksaholic wrote:
Pete, I hope you at least had a good time at the BG fest, despite the fact that you had this cloud hanging over the trip.

It was going to take a lot more than that to ruin my trip! The fest was great (as always). Great people, great music in one of the most beautifull places on earth! I lived EXTRA large this year!

I have to disagree that the Wildcats are crap. I have been using them for the last 10 years without any problems. They ride great on the highway and are excellent in the snow. I have also done serious off roading with them. I also don't believe LS would sell me a tire that wasn't safe for the vehicle. Maybe that's just my ignorance but I trust those guys.

Mon Jun 30, 2008 5:35 pm

GWTWTLW wrote: Volksaholic wrote:
Pete, I hope you at least had a good time at the BG fest, despite the fact that you had this cloud hanging over the trip.

It was going to take a lot more than that to ruin my trip! The fest was great (as always). Great people, great music in one of the most beautifull places on earth! I lived EXTRA large this year!

I have to disagree that the Wildcats are crap. I have been using them for the last 10 years without any problems. They ride great on the highway and are excellent in the snow. I have also done serious off roading with them. I also don't believe LS would sell me a tire that wasn't safe for the vehicle. Maybe that's just my ignorance but I trust those guys.

I'm glad to hear the Telluride BG fest helped take your mind off the van... I would be seriously bummed! Are you a picker or strictly a listener? Do you make it over to the Targhee BG fest in August? I'm hoping the Vanagon is back on the road for that one... my wife and I need a pickin' fix!

The first year I went to Telluride was '81... my roommate and I drove down in my '58 Westy. It was a slow drive on the hills, then we got pulled over outside of Naturita because one of my headlights was out of adjustment. That was just down the road from where a turbo Saab blew past us at about 90mph and he had to have blasted past the cop on the side of the road too... but we probably looked like an easier and more fun target being two 20 y.o. long-haired punks in a VW bus! :) It wasn't just luck that there was nothing visible that would be probable cause for a more extensive search as the cop scanned around the van with his flashlight! :wink:

Anyway, I'm glad to hear you've had good luck with the Wildcats. I bought the rears in Fallon, NV when the Michelins that were on the van when I bought it started disintegrating while driving Hwy 50 across Nevada in 100º+ heat last July. It was the only tire shop open when we limped into town, and it was the only tire they carried that was rated for the Vanagon. We replace the other two in Napa, CA because the NV store only had two in stock and I didn't want to continue the trip on the Michelins when two had already started delaminating. I had wanted to shop for tires before we left town because, even though the Michelins looked good, I didn't know their history. I called around town but we ran out of time.

I'm still interested in hearing why Candyman thinks they're so bad. As much as I hate to swap relatively low mile tires off my van, my family's safety is obviously more important than the wasted $$$. I did some quick Internet surfing while we were waiting for the tires to be installed and didn't find any bad reports, and I've since done some reading (including here) and didn't find many reports one way or another about them. The feel good on the road.

Mon Jun 30, 2008 6:39 pm

GWTWTLW wrote: .. I don't believe I hit anything to cause it. The van had been pulling hard to the right beforehand but that was was from the wind. It might have been enough to shift enough of the weight to that tire to overload it but I don't think so.

Sounds like maybe the tire lost air for some reason (foreign object in tire...it happens) and got low enough to cause extra "pull" which may not have been as noticable due to the wind. The tire would then overheat and come apart.

Just my thoughts....hope it helps.

BTW...Good luck Pete.

Will

Mon Jun 30, 2008 7:01 pm

PM me if you plan to part it out. I have a friend in the Seattle area who'd probably be willing to come down and buy anything that was salvageable. He does syncro conversions as a hobby.

Mon Jun 30, 2008 8:10 pm

Them Syncro driveline components are worth some buck in good shape.

But really sorry the thing is wrecked. Glad you aren't.

Mon Jun 30, 2008 8:20 pm

sorry about your rig, sounds like a good one. Glad you guys are ok. This is making me more paranoid about tires.

Mon Jun 30, 2008 9:26 pm

I've had the Wildcats before and they are good tires but I've been told they are not quite suited to a heavy westy syncro so have always passed them by. Something about the weaker sidewalls and number of plys. At least this is what has been related to me by the real syncro hounds - they all tend to herd toward the 6 or more ply tires.

Bob

Tue Jul 01, 2008 12:28 am

Find a place to part it out if possible, you can make some good bread with those parts. Even scrap metal is worth something. Glad to hear you walked away OK.

Tue Jul 01, 2008 4:32 am

I ran Continentals on my Westy. About 4 months ago, I had the left rear blow on me, then rip apart as I pulled off the highway. My speed was no greater than 45 MPH when this happened, and the tires were within 60% of their tread life. I too am anal about tire pressure, and kept mine at the required pressure (via the door sticker recommendation).

I always trusted Continentals, as they are used heavily in Europe by BMW, Mercedes, and the like at Autoban speeds. Granted, my 84 1.9 liter would not come close to the tires rated speeds, even in it's wildest dreams, so I figured I'd never have a tire blowout issue.
My new found reasonings: tire failures happen. No tire is excluded. All we can do is check (at least weekly) our tires for good air pressure, tread condition, and for any nails, screws, etc.

Glad to hear you walked from this one. A roll over is not a common accident folks walk away from. I don't think I'd be blaming the tires, as the ones you were using are good enough, with good testimonials from others here. Just like the Continentals I was running; many on the road, and used as original equipment by auto manufacturers that I trust.

This unfortunately happens for no aparent reason.

Tue Jul 01, 2008 5:32 am

I am certain that most Vanagon Forum memebers are well aware of Roadhaus who has a tire review section. Here is what he says (bottom line: does NOT meet specs for a VW van): "Les Schwab
Dean Tire and Rubber
(Sold as Les SchwabTire)
Model: WildC@ Light Truck
Passenger Car Tire: No
Size: 27X8.50R14LT
Load Index: C
Load Range: 95
Max Load: 1520 lbs
Max Infl@ion Pressure: 50 psi
Tire Weight:
Diameter:
Revs/per Mile:
Fits in Stock Clamshell: Yes

Meets Specifications: No

I am running Hankooks (195-14 on factory alloys) on a 1986 wolfy/westy (not as tall or as heavy as a syncro adventurewagen), and find them to be very good for my purposes (paved roads with an occasional unpaved road very rarely). I would recomend them (see bus depot discussion of tires suitable for vanagons also) KIM

Tue Jul 01, 2008 8:49 am

Volksaholic wrote: Well, that causes me concern because I've got the same tires on the Wolfsburg! They seem to ride fine when they have air in them and they're all round & stuff. Candyman; What failure did you have that leads you to believe they are CPOS? If they're dangerous then I want to get them off my van before I put it back on the road but I wasn't finding any negative information on them when I bought them.
From Pete's description of the failure, I was wondering if the failing tire had already started leaking, which could over heated/stressed it until it failed. If it was just a random defect... that's damn scary!

Pete, I hope you at least had a good time at the BG fest, despite the fact that you had this cloud hanging over the trip.

I had Wildcats on my gl a few years back. They wore out so quickly! I also lived about 10 miles back on a dirt raod. I had a flat atleast once a month, and i don't drive hard. I then got in to my syncro westy and went straight away with the BFG"S. 35k later no problems and I have been in some shit! I am sure a lighter vehicle would do well with the wildcats. I don't believe they do well with a heavy camper or syncro. remember tires are the things that make contact with road, bummed is what you are when you driving and they suddenly explode! Spend the extra money and stay away from cheapy tires like the wildcats, my $.02

Tue Jul 01, 2008 8:52 am

Thanks for that feedback. After doing some poking around I'm not sure if I've got Wildcat or Wild Country tires, and Les Schwab's site is piss-poor at giving specs. When I looked at the specs I remember thinking that they worked for the Vanagon. Maybe I'm okay with the Wolfsburg... I think I'm about 1000 lbs lighter than a Westy Syncro, or something like that.

I put Yokohama 356s on my '73. They rode well and held up well, but I burned through the tread faster than I would have liked. The '85 got Vancos which road well but sucked in the snow. I sold the van the spring after I put the tires on so I don't know how they held up long term.

Tue Jul 01, 2008 9:08 am

The second set of tires on my 91 Multi were Wildcats. I found the handling to be erratic and the tread wear terrible, but no flats or blowouts or anything. I have had 235R78/16's Wildcats on my pickup and never had a problem. The quality between to two sizes seems to be very different.

Tue Jul 01, 2008 10:52 am

Volksaholic wrote:
I'm glad to hear the Telluride BG fest helped take your mind off the van... I would be seriously bummed! Are you a picker or strictly a listener? Do you make it over to the Targhee BG fest in August? I'm hoping the Vanagon is back on the road for that one... my wife and I need a pickin' fix!

I'm mostly a listener. I play a little Banjo but I won't be quiting my day job anytoime soon! I've never been to Targhee but have heard it's a great fest. We'll be doing NW String Summit in OR (close to home). That's a really good fest too. 3 days of Yonder Mountain and a lot of folks from String Cheese and Leftover Salmon this year. Should be some good jamming!

Tue Jul 01, 2008 12:15 pm

GWTWTLW wrote: Volksaholic wrote:
I'm glad to hear the Telluride BG fest helped take your mind off the van... I would be seriously bummed! Are you a picker or strictly a listener? Do you make it over to the Targhee BG fest in August? I'm hoping the Vanagon is back on the road for that one... my wife and I need a pickin' fix!

I'm mostly a listener. I play a little Banjo but I won't be quiting my day job anytoime soon! I've never been to Targhee but have heard it's a great fest. We'll be doing NW String Summit in OR (close to home). That's a really good fest too. 3 days of Yonder Mountain and a lot of folks from String Cheese and Leftover Salmon this year. Should be some good jamming!

I'll be there!