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Mon Jun 30, 2008 5:49 pm

First post, but I have lurked around here for a while.

Anyway, got a 57 single cab that needs a master cylinder. I have been down the brazilian MC road, and have had no luck, they always end up leaking within a year or so.

I want to rebuild the original. It bore is fine, the system never dried out.
I know I have seen rebuild kits, but now I can't find one to save my life.

Anyone know where I can find one? Any chance the I can avoid the rebuild vs. new mc discussion?

Mon Jun 30, 2008 5:57 pm

if the bore is nice, i would rebuild it as well. they pop up in the classifides from time to time. post a wanted add and you should be able to locate one.
i also always use sil-glyde from napa to lube all the rubber brake parts on my buses. it makes the seals last much longer and also helps prevent corrosion from forming in the bores.

Mon Jun 30, 2008 6:06 pm

Thanks - I saw your recommendation for sil-glyde while searching.

I will try the classifieds. Should I be concerned with the age of the kit?

We have a very complete brake house here, I am wondering if I should just try and source the seals. They wouldn't carry a kit per se, but the seals maybe fresh?

Mon Jun 30, 2008 6:18 pm

if the kit has been stored properly over the years, i would guess it should be fine. i bought a few nos ate kits recently. i have had one inatalled now for 6 months, no problems as of yet.

anyone installed a nos mc/wc kit that has failed in a short time?

be aware there is a 30 and a 36 mm stroke master cylinder

Mon Jun 30, 2008 8:03 pm

Really? How do you identify which is which? Does the stroke affect the rebuild kit required? I would guess not, as long as the bore is correct. While we are talking about it, what is the bore? 22mm?

Thanks for your help - i do appreciate it.

Mon Jun 30, 2008 9:39 pm

If you're tripping on the seal at forward end leaking, know that it's the same seal as found in all wheel cylinder pistons, and swap right over. Don't be surprised if you do like I do, and swap an old, used piston seal -that you likely have on hand right now- for the MC seal and it seals like magic. Don't waste time buying what you already have at home, swing the wrenches and ingenuity and be proud in an hour. The only seal you need to be concerned with is the forward seal.

Mon Jun 30, 2008 10:09 pm

I was wondering about this same problem today after having my Brazilian POS master cylinder start leaking right away. I'm also having problems with the rear brakes tightening up while driving. I have to stop occasionally to crack a rear bleeder to release pressure. I have the original M/C out of this 57 bus that I may try to rebuild. Not sure if the rear brake problems are M/C related but that seems to be the weak link in an otherwise solid, fresh system. Any ideas?

Mon Jun 30, 2008 10:27 pm

Check the rear brake hoses.

Mon Jun 30, 2008 10:31 pm

They are new. Made in Mexico.

Mon Jun 30, 2008 10:37 pm

If brakes bind with new rubber brake lines, then check the free play between the pedal push rod and the MC.

Mon Jun 30, 2008 10:40 pm

I wondered about that since when I finished bleeding them the pedal felt great but had very little free play. What is the correct amount of free play at the pushrod? I will crawl under tomorrow and tinker.

Tue Jul 01, 2008 5:54 am

free-play btw pushrod and master cylinder 1mm

i am not sure if the 2 types of master cylinder kits are compatable, i would think something would be different in there. i have only rebuilt the ate mc. you don't see too many brake parts here in nc that don't have badly pitted bores.

Tue Jul 01, 2008 7:58 am

I have had a Brazilian (VARGA) MC in my
1960 DD 8 years
1960 SS kombi 3 years
My old 63 flipseat it's been 6 years and it still worked when sold (don't know if it was leaking or not though)
1958 SC I've owned for about 7 months, po put it in a couple years before I bought it
1960 SC, still works, installed by po 5 years ago and this bus just sits.

Most of the leaks I have seen are from the resavoir, not the MC.

Not to say these are the best, but I haven't seen as many problems as people talk about here. There are dune buggys/rails here in town that have also had them on for years. The problems I see are lack of maintainance, dirt getting in them when filling, people not flushing their brakes lines when installing, etc. etc..
BUT with the huge price increases in imported Brazilian goods a REAL GERMAN FTE could be a good option soon.

Now the new Chinese ones :roll: , of the 2 I have out for testing 1 has allready failed, that was when the temps out here hit a constant 110 plus.

People bag on Varga but they are a OE supplier to VW and many other car manufacturers.

Brakes are nothing to cheap out on, your life depends on them.

ps. I believe it is Roy at MoFoCo that has all the NOS MC rebuild kits. I got some 67 ones from him a few weeks ago

Tue Jul 01, 2008 8:40 am

I have had brazilian brake parts that worked fine, but not this time. It is definitely leaking from under the pushrod boot.

The M/C that came off this bus has no brand or part numbers that I can see, only the number 22 cast in two places. I will be tearing it apart to see if it can be rebuilt.

Tue Jul 01, 2008 9:34 am

Splitpile - thanks for the heads up, I will check mofoco.

I have had 2 brazilian MC leak on me. I am not rebuilding it to be cheap, I just feel its a better option that sticking another Brazilian one in there.

Looking at nos kits, its probably gonna be more expensive to rebuild it.

If that doesnt work - next stop is german mc.

Tue Jul 01, 2008 1:12 pm

cdennisg wrote:
The M/C that came off this bus has no brand or part numbers that I can see, only the number 22 cast in two places. I will be tearing it apart to see if it can be rebuilt.

Seems like you have either a HMM (made in Mexico), or OE brand (made in China) or a generic Chinese. Varga say VARGA and have the part numbers cast into them.

One of these days (ya right) I will line up all the different brands (I have at least one of each here) and take a picture so people can identify what they have.

Tue Jul 01, 2008 2:05 pm

cdennisg wrote: I was wondering about this same problem today after having my Brazilian POS master cylinder start leaking right away. I'm also having problems with the rear brakes tightening up while driving. I have to stop occasionally to crack a rear bleeder to release pressure. I have the original M/C out of this 57 bus that I may try to rebuild. Not sure if the rear brake problems are M/C related but that seems to be the weak link in an otherwise solid, fresh system. Any ideas?

Corey, I wonder if your MC is sticking. I had this problem on that velvet green std. last month. After taking the new MC apart, found the primary cup was too big and no centering nipple...so it was not returning. Could not even bleed the brakes. Just happened to Dustin on the '57 truck too.

Tue Jul 01, 2008 3:20 pm

splitpile wrote: cdennisg wrote:
The M/C that came off this bus has no brand or part numbers that I can see, only the number 22 cast in two places. I will be tearing it apart to see if it can be rebuilt.

Seems like you have either a HMM (made in Mexico), or OE brand (made in China) or a generic Chinese. Varga say VARGA and have the part numbers cast into them.

One of these days (ya right) I will line up all the different brands (I have at least one of each here) and take a picture so people can identify what they have.

I doubt its chinese as this bus hasn't seen the road since 71. Probably not mexican either, but who knows.

I just checked at NAPA and I can get the rebuild kit for about $20. I will tear down the old M/C to see if its worth trying to fix.

Maybe this is a sign that I should do a dual M/C conversion with a german late model unit. I know its far from original but sometimes that takes a backseat to safety.

Tue Jul 01, 2008 7:43 pm

Napa has the rebuild kits? what years?

sweet

Tue Jul 01, 2008 10:37 pm

The guy at the counter said he could get them from the main supplier in Illinois. They cover 55-66, and that part # did not match the one for early beetles, as I would have expected. The part # is 226. Kind of short but he said that's it.

I bought front wheel cylinder kits there this spring. Each kit was about $3.50 I think. I ordered 4 since I assumed that is what I would need. Turns out each kit does two cylinders, so I now have a pair of spares. Whoopee!