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Mon Jul 14, 2008 11:49 pm

Hello all, just the facts. I'm desperate out here in WA.

1976 / 2.oL, F.I. VW riviera conversion camper.

Bought with No 1st gear. Drove and shifted fine otherwise.
--Had 1st gear rebuilt, all other gears and splines looked great!!!
--New clutch disc, was told that t.o. bearing and PP were newer, reused them.
--Did NOT replace pilot bearing or anything (did not think to)

--I CANNOT shift into gears w/0 shutting off engine, shift, then restart.
--I CAN sync gears with engine speed and push 75mph no problem
--Adjusted clutch cable back and forth, loose and tight.
--Replaced Bowden tube.
--Tapped in new, larger bolt on top clutch cable mount due to being stripped and flexing.

i'm running out of ideas here. What have I missed or done wrong?

I only got one response on a longer posting, so I thought to keep it short.

Thanks all,
David

**EDIT**
Just finished removing engine and trans. Took a bunch of pics, pilot bearing looks good--bit dry, new friction disc, flywheel and PP look good but "rainbow effect' on smoothe surface. Does everything look right? I followed Ratwells steps, haynes and Muir to the letter. As well as followed the advice from others below=adjusted the tube, linkage, added and removed washers and spacers, etc...None seemed to work or even remotely make a difference, what could I possibly be missing?

THANK YOU IN ADVANCE,
David

Mon Jul 14, 2008 11:55 pm

How many engine/trans pulls and partial repairs = 1 complete trans/clutch rebuild? Honestly, I can't really help you here. Just thought I'd ask the question. If you can do without the bus for a while, why not just make the thing whole and be done with it?

Tue Jul 15, 2008 12:06 am

This is your third post on the same subject in three days. Just bump your old post to the top of the list instead of starting from scratch again and again.

In both the previous post someone has suggested that you might need a pilot bearing. If tightening the adjusting nut on the cable won't give you a full release then you probably will need to pull the engine again and tear into the clutch to find out what is wrong.

Tue Jul 15, 2008 12:17 am

I apologize for duplicate posts. I'm not sure how to "bump" this to the top.

I streamlined from my wandering previous post for simplicity, i thought to get all the opinions I could before a complete removal of engine and trans.--maybe it's somthing simple I was overlooking. I'm still kind of new to the VW family. thanks to all who can advise.

Thanks for understanding,
David :D

Tue Jul 15, 2008 10:44 pm

**BUMP***

133 looks, and only one suggestion, ouch!

I'll try to rephrase things then. About how far forward should the "arm"(that the clutch cable goes through) move when the clutch pedal is engaged. 1 inch, 3 inches, 7/8Th of an inch, 12 feet???

Worse case scenario, I can pull the engine and trans. What is the opinion on pulling just the engine to replace the pilot bearing(if possible) or take 'em both out together? I did them together previously,following Ratwells advice.

Anyone have any ideas?

Tue Jul 15, 2008 11:03 pm

My two cents. You have to pull that tranny anyway. I'm just guessing, replace that throw out bearing.

Wed Jul 16, 2008 12:03 am

if its worth anything to ya.. i recently had a similar problem, could not get it into any gear. was as if clutch was engaged all the time. i dropped engine, inspected clutch.. found that pilot bearing had disintegrated, bits and pieces everywhere.

look on the bright side, i was on the road, 250 miles away when it happened to me! on a sunday no less, gotta get to work tomorrow somehow! =D you get to enjoy the comfort of your own garage and your own time schedule =D

and btw, my FLAPS (t'was advance auto parts) rented me a pilot bearing puller- it was actually free as long as i returned it within 45 days! my advice; go rent one on the day of; dont bother even trying to get the bearing out without it. (futile) very easy with the puller.

keep posting, take pics, lots of folks here can practically walk you through it. =)

Wed Jul 16, 2008 12:16 am

Quote: if its worth anything to ya.. i recently had a similar problem, could not get it into any gear. was as if clutch was engaged all the time. i dropped engine, inspected clutch.. found that pilot bearing had disintegrated, bits and pieces everywhere.

look on the bright side, i was on the road, 250 miles away when it happened to me! on a sunday no less, gotta get to work tomorrow somehow! =D you get to enjoy the comfort of your own garage and your own time schedule =D

and btw, my FLAPS (t'was advance auto parts) rented me a pilot bearing puller- it was actually free as long as i returned it within 45 days! my advice; go rent one on the day of; dont bother even trying to get the bearing out without it. (futile) very easy with the puller.

THANK YOU!!! Finally, someone with some common sense and willing to help. I was hoping it could be something simple, although my gut was telling me to just yank 'er out and get it done with, but I wanted a second, third, fourth....opinion before getting dirty again. :)

I WILL be camping in this beast this summer, even if I have to rent a flatbed to tow it to the campground. :shock:

Thanks,
David

Wed Jul 16, 2008 4:48 am

you could have junk on the splines of the input shaft too, if the clutch cant slide freely on the shaft, it will cause an issue like you describe

Wed Jul 16, 2008 11:30 am

DSM8 wrote:

THANK YOU!!! Finally, someone with some common sense and willing to help.

Thanks,
David

So when I and others posted the same solution earlier we weren't trying to help. Don't expect much help in the future with an attitude like that.

Wed Jul 16, 2008 12:44 pm

Sorry if I insulted you my friend, don't take it personally.

I was fishing for different angles. I was frustrated that my legitimate question got few answers, while a post on windshield wipers or wicker keychains get a hundred replies.

I'm sure you've worked all day, come home to family, put the kids to bed, THEN try to squeeze some garage time in. I've been frustrated with this damn bus and was looking for the "magic" pill

David

Wed Jul 16, 2008 1:36 pm

DSM8 wrote: and was looking for the "magic" pill

Well, I suggest you take one. Hopefully you'll see some adjustment in your attitude.

I did read that you've adjusted the clutch tighter and looser, but I didn't see how much freeplay you set it to.. Many clutch cables now are too long on the bus. Mine, for example, has two thick nuts on it before the wingnut, just so I can tighten it accordingly. You are shooting for no more than 1" of freeplay at the pedal. Does your current setup allow you to adjust for this?

Wed Jul 16, 2008 2:15 pm

Alright, lets start over and be friends here.

I can adjust the wingnut all the way to the end (front of bus)of the threads with no change. The cable looks great, it was the one that came from the P.o. and other than the missing 1st gear, shifted ok, although a little sloppy. I added 2 washers to the new bowden tube to take up slack with no change, it just looks REALLY curved now though. ONE time, when I first reinstalled the trans, did everything shift beautifully while the bus was jacked up on all 4 corners. 1st road test, and now this is where I'm at. It looks more and more likely that the pilot bearing is shot. Although, when dissassembling the first time, I took some digital pics to help with reassembly and I zoomed in on the pilot bearing in the pic and still could see the needle bearings there. Could I of done something wrong when I mated the eng. and trans? I didnt force anything, and it went pretty smoothe.

**EDIT** Added picture

Wed Jul 16, 2008 2:22 pm

DSM8 wrote: Alright, lets start over and be friends here.

I can adjust the wingnut all the way to the end (front of bus)of the threads with no change. The cable looks great, it was the one that came from the P.o. and other than the missing 1st gear, shifted ok, although a little sloppy. I added 2 washers to the new bowden tube to take up slack with no change, it just looks REALLY curved now though. ONE time, when I first reinstalled the trans, did everything shift beautifully while the bus was jacked up on all 4 corners. 1st road test, and now this is where I'm at. It looks more and more likely that the pilot bearing is shot. Although, when dissassembling the first time, I took some digital pics to help with reassembly and I zoomed in on the pilot bearing in the pic and still could see the needle bearings there. Could I of done something wrong when I mated the eng. and trans? I didnt force anything, and it went pretty smoothe.

I'm trying to post a pic, but cant figure out how to do it. me=dumb

So, with the wingnut anywhere along it's travel, are you able to get 1" freeplay in the pedal? What I was trying to say is that on my bus, and with lots of the clutch cables available these days, the cable is too long. If I didn't have the nuts between the wingnut and the lever, I would not be able to properly adjust the cable. I am thinking that even fully-tightened your cable is too long, and not actuating the clutch. Tighten it all the way and see how much freeplay you have. If it is still more than an inch, try putting washers or nuts under the wingnut and readjusting it.

Wed Jul 16, 2008 2:34 pm

I didnt know you can add washers at the wingnut. I thought the "ridges" on the wingnut had to "lock" into the lever to prevent it coming loose. I can definitely adjust the wing to gain 1'" I can tighten it so as to completly eliminate freeplay, but I heard some is good. I had my wife step and release the pedal while looking at the action. I eliminated the flexing with the new cable mount bolts, and am seeing the lever on the trans(?proper term) move maybe 2inches---is that enough travel to fully disengage?

Thanks,
David

Wed Jul 16, 2008 2:51 pm

1" of freeplay is the spec, give or take.

Yes, the wingnut is supposed to lock into the arm, but if the cable is too long, you gotta do what you gotta do...

If you have 1" of freeplay, the adjustment is right, so on to the rest of the suggestions.

Here's one - sometimes the forks for the throwout bearing get bent...

Wed Jul 16, 2008 3:16 pm

Thanks for the advice.

I 'think" I can eliminate the cable being too long. I've monkeyed around with that guy enough, spacers and adjustments, new bowden tube, retapped mount, etc...

I know I put things back together properly, seems to be only one way to do it.

I'm sure(fingers crossed) the fork and trans, clutch disc, t.o. and PP are perfect. The rebuilder was VERY knowledgeable and really knew what he was doing. VW trans rebuilds only for 25+years.

Process of elimination points to the only thing left = the pilot bearing.What do you guys/girls think? Thats the only variable that I didnt even give a second thought to. I don't know if you can see enough in the above pic, but it looks like its all there. But like I said, i didnt even give it a second thought. GRRRR!!!

50 bucks and a 6pack to whoever wants to do that for me :D

Wed Jul 16, 2008 3:46 pm

DSM8 wrote: The rebuilder was VERY knowledgeable and really knew what he was doing. VW trans rebuilds only for 25+years.

Why not let him have a crack at it? By the looks of the picture I doubt the pilot bearing is the problem...

Do you remember which direction the clutch plate was pointing when you installed it? The protruding side faces the tranny. I doubt it would go together the other way, but if you somehow forced that side towards the flywheel it certainly wouldn't release..

DSM8 wrote: 50 bucks and a 6pack to whoever wants to do that for me :D

Throw in an airline ticket to Vancouver and I'm there!

Wed Jul 16, 2008 3:57 pm

The mechanic was the one who discovered the flexing at the cable mount upper bolt, and recommended the bowden tube replacement. I tapped the new larger bolt and replaced the tube to kill those two issues.

I reinstalled the clutch disc with the"snout" facing forward(trans side) following Ratwells(a God amongst men) pictures and steps. I was actually surprised how smoothe everything married together.

Now you know my frustrations, where the heck is the fault. Its got to be something dumb and simple, I know I'm just overthinking it. :x

Dang my lack of winning the lottery. I say let the pros fix it, but it wouldnt be as satisfying. I feel like Indiana Jones on the hunt for the lost treasure :D

Fri Jul 18, 2008 10:47 pm

***EDITED**

Added lots of pics and details.