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Tue Jul 15, 2008 4:48 pm

I was reminded by the recent posts on tire separations and blowouts when I saw this video from ABC news. Take a good look at the numbers on the inner side wall for the codes that represents the week/year of the tire production. Careful buying tires from common businesses and internet discount tire companies...

http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=4826897

based on this reporting, any tire older than 6 years is suspect, even if they are purchased new.

Tue Jul 15, 2008 6:08 pm

I have two cars I don't drive more than 10,000 miles a year; my Westy and my '68 Olds 442 Convertible.

Haven't replaced the westy's tires yet but am looking at it, even though they have 90% tread, they are five years old.

As for my 442, I replaced tires that were at 80% tread but were six years old last week.

On a car like that, (i.e., the rear end wants to break free all the time because of all the hp and torque) you really notice how much better new rubber works. Sticky, like it should be, instead of dried out. Forget the safety issues; just more fun to drive on sticky tires.

Well, when you notice such a difference, you have to be thinking; if the tire is dried out on the outside, what's it like on the inside?

Particularly important when you think about the fact that many of the tires people are putting on these vans are rated for 80,000 miles of treadwear. Unless you drive your van exclusively, you should never get even close to that kind of mileage out of a set of tires before replacing them.

Tue Jul 15, 2008 6:48 pm

I would just add; I am a lawyer (ducking the thrown rotten tomatoes) and have represented major tire companies in cases like the one described in the video. Typically the cases involve tread separation. Nasty consequences if you are on the highway and are in a vehicle with a high center of gravity whose tire suddenly goes kablooey. Although counterintuitive to some, the consequences of a catastrophic tire failure can be much worse if the shredded tire is on the back of the car. Of the cases I've litigated, I see more roll overs when the bad tire is on the rear. Front tire blow outs can result in loss of control and accidents, sure, but for some reason I don't fully understand they don't seem to have as many rollovers. In any event, this is a good reason for keeping your better tires on the back of the car when you rotate.

Tread separation happens because the compounds that bond the tire's treads to the tire's core breakdown. This can happen for a number of reasons. As a lawyer, I always look to see if the owner of the vehicle had any micky mouse repairs done following a puncture; this can lead to moisture entering the tire and ultimately corroding and weakening the steel belts. From the plaintiffs end, the argument is that the "glue" (bonded thermally) just wasn't sticky enough when the treads were bonded to the core, or that the plant manager wasn't exercising the right quality control, etc. But no one disagrees with the idea expressed in the video; the older the tire is, the drier it gets, the higher the chances of tread separation.

Proper inflation is key as well. An underinflated tire going 90 MPH on a 100 degree day (not that our vans can actually do this) is far more likely to peel apart than a properly inflated tire. Those big hunks of rubber lying in the middle of the road on the interstates come mainly from semis; but those guys have four tires per axle. There's a reason for that.

Don't screw around with buying used tires or old tires with good tread. It's a gamble. Even the most experienced driver in an SUV with a rear tread separation can lose control and roll the vehicle (remember the Explorer litigation and Goodyear's ugliness in that battle. )

Tue Jul 15, 2008 7:24 pm

yep I jst replaced 5 tires with less than 10,000 miles. Hard to swallow but better than a blowout with my family.

Tue Jul 15, 2008 8:15 pm

The tire that blew and caused me to roll was the right rear. I never had a chance to try and control it. The tires were installed in 2004 but only had 17000 miles on them. The treads were still excellent. When I get the van back, I'll definitely check the manufacture date. I'm sure I have no legal recourse at this point though.

Wed Jul 16, 2008 1:01 am

RC Westy ~

Thanks for that link. I had no idea, but I'll be checking first thing.

much appreciated sir!

Best,

Lanval

Wed Jul 16, 2008 6:27 am

This is good information... I'm sorry it was too late for you, Pete. I'm sure this explains why my Michelins started delaminating on Hwy 50 across Nevada last summer (100º+ day, fully loaded van with a light trailer behind). As I posted before, the tires were on the van when I bought it and had great tread. They were one of the check-list items that I wanted to replace before the trip because I didn't know their history... it never occurred to me to check for a date of manufacture. Unfortunately all the other prep work chewed up my time so I only got around to calling a couple tire stores, neither of whom had Vanagon-friendly tires in stock.

The rear tires started delaminating and acting like they were out of balance, and as anyone who has driven Hwy 50 knows you don't have a lot of options for service between Delta, Utah and Fallon, Nevada. We got past Eureka and the tires were getting bad enough that I was keeping my speed down and pulling over to check them occasionally. By the time we got to the shoe tree (if you've driven here you'll know what I mean) I pulled over and swapped the spare for the worse of the two rear tires. We settled on the Les Schwab tires because they were the only game in town open at 6:00 PM.

Pete, I definitely think you should check the date of manufacture. It sounds like Les Schwab had a record of your purchase and the tires should have been within their acceptable life span. If they originally sold you tires that were manufactured a couple years prior then they may have been too old at the time of failure but you would be assuming they were only 4 years old. In addition, if you've had them do the balance and rotation and they didn't bring the tire age to your attention I think it's worth putting some pressure on them to cover the damage. I'm no lawyer, but I would think that if they think they could be found liable for more than just the destroyed van they may bend over backwards to kiss your ass and keep it out of court. It would be reasonable for you to expect the tires to only be 4 years old and adequate for the van if they were sold to you in 2004 as being the correct tire.

I noticed the tires I had put on in Napa have a 2006 date (installed in 2007) but the ones they put on in Fallon are 2005. (Fallon only had 2 in stock and the next available pair were in Napa, CA). This pisses me off... they have only a few thousand miles and I had them installed a year ago, but they're already at half their usable life. They also sold me 195s even though I asked for 185s because that's what they had in stock but from another post by Pete it sounds like the 185s would be sturdier. I'm going to see if the local Les Schwab guys will work with the Fallon/Napa folks to get me tires I'm more comfortable with. I think the Wildcats will be okay on my Wolfsburg but they're probably pushing it for a heavier camper.

One last thought... it's pretty scary to think that those tires others have posted that they retired (yes, there's a pun in there) with low miles will likely get resold by the tire installers to some unsuspecting car owner at a discount. It would be fine if they disclosed that the tires are old and shouldn't be used on the freeway or in extreme conditions, but I'm sure they will just tell them that they're cheap because they are used and leave it at that.

Wed Jul 16, 2008 7:33 am

This is great info RCWesty. Thanks for posting.

Wed Jul 16, 2008 8:32 am

John Stossel being a fascist sympathizer, I was put off when I saw his mug as I thought it would be another of his alarmist hit-pieces, but instead the actual story was done by a credible journalist so I sat up and paid attention. This is great stuff to know and now you can easily check tires you are about to buy and reject them if they've been on the shelf too long. I do think it may be a bit misleading to say the tire's life is only six years; the published warnings were not to sell any tire once it reaches that age. That leaves several years of use. I have trouble believing the glue would reach a state of being hazardous after only six years, but ten? OK, time to worry, perhaps. Anyway that's a distinction that needs clearing up.

Naturally I went outside and looked at all of my cars' tires. The Syncro I had shipped from the East Coast a couple months ago had matching pairs, per axle, with the same dates, but they were all made in 1995! Not surprising, really, as this van had been parked for quite awhile. Not a worry for me since in addition to a fresh motor it will get bigger wheels and new tires before it ever sees an inch of pavement. But I'll be looking at the date stamps when I buy them!

Next, my '83 Datsun 4x4. I guessed they must be at least ten years old, recalling when I bought them back when this truck was still helping me build my house. All made in the same week in 1997. The furthest this truck-cum-tractor will ever go again is the waste transfer station a mile up the paved road, if even that far, and it'll never be driven over 30mph in my backcountry neighborhood, so no worries. If it delams while I'm out cutting firewood I'll just laugh and limp home on the casing.

Next, the '92 Suby wagon, which does see 5 or 6k of highway yearly, and got new rubber last year at my local discount tire shop, Garcia's. They move a lot of rubber thru there, and it shows: the tires were three made in 37 of '06, and one a week later.

Finally, my road van, the '87, which gets driven mercilessly about 15k a year (until gas hit $4; this year will be different). It got 4 new Goodyear Viva 2's at Walmart, also last year. We bought a lot of rubber in '07 as my wife got new tires too. The Goodyears all had the same week stamp, 5th week of '07. So thumbs up for my local evil Walmart, on this job at least.

Luckily I hate whitewalls so if the tires have them I always have them installed blackwalls out. All my date markings were easily visible on the outside walls of every tire.

Wed Jul 16, 2008 9:26 am

Volksaholic wrote:
Pete, I definitely think you should check the date of manufacture. It sounds like Les Schwab had a record of your purchase and the tires should have been within their acceptable life span. If they originally sold you tires that were manufactured a couple years prior then they may have been too old at the time of failure but you would be assuming they were only 4 years old. In addition, if you've had them do the balance and rotation and they didn't bring the tire age to your attention I think it's worth putting some pressure on them to cover the damage. I'm no lawyer, but I would think that if they think they could be found liable for more than just the destroyed van they may bend over backwards to kiss your ass and keep it out of court. It would be reasonable for you to expect the tires to only be 4 years old and adequate for the van if they were sold to you in 2004 as being the correct tire.

I just watched the video. I will absolutely be checking the manufacture date as soon as I can. I honestly believe th LS sold me tires that were the right tire for the van but They may have been old. The tread is clearly seperated.

Man, watching the video of the blowout and resulting rollover brought some bad memories back! My van did pretty much what happened to the SUV in the video. The back kicked out and started fish-tailing and then flipped - all within about 5 seconds. I always thought that I would be able to bring a vehicle under control in a situation like that. It was kind of reassuring (in a morbid way) to hear the professional say that even he didn't have a chance.

I've been trying to upload some pics. Can it only be done from a URL or can I upload them directly from my computer to the forum?

Wed Jul 16, 2008 9:45 am

For some reason I can't play that video here at work - can someone give me the Cliffs notes on how to check the date? I just took a quick look at my tires, and found stampings that said something like "DMC0201" and "DFC4702" - are these the dates (e.g., wk47 2002)?

Wed Jul 16, 2008 9:45 am

I checked mine this morning after watching that video and mine were made the third week in 2006. I had them shipped from the Tire Rack and installed in September of 2006, so thankfully I am good to go.

Tire Rack has a few related articles, FYI.

How to determine a tire's age:
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=11

Tire Aging:
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=138

Wed Jul 16, 2008 7:12 pm

GWTWTLW wrote:
I've been trying to upload some pics. Can it only be done from a URL or can I upload them directly from my computer to the forum?

Upload them to the Gallery, then link to that location.

Thu Jul 17, 2008 6:40 am

Hey thanks for this good information. I bought new tires last month so I just checked the dates. Four were 49th or 50th week of 07 but the 5th was the 10th week of 06. That tire is 2.5 years old is going back.

Thu Jul 17, 2008 10:58 am

Here are a couple of pics. Looking at the tire, you can make out the tread that's peeled away...

The roof was completely off and landed about 50 yards away from where the van ended up.

I was able to open all of the doors except for the rear hatch (which took about an hour with pry bar (but there was stuff back there that I was NOT leaving without!)

Thu Jul 17, 2008 11:42 am

Boy, you were lucky to get out of that thing alive.

It may have actually been your "lucky day" believe it or not.

Thu Jul 17, 2008 11:55 am

Yes I was! I literally didn't have a scratch on my body! Somebody was definitely looking out for me and my family. My wife and 4 year old son decided to fly at the last minute so she could visit her father in Vegas. The car seat in the back was completely buried under debris.

Thu Jul 17, 2008 4:15 pm

The tires on my van are only about 6 months old (bought by the PO) but they're all bulging on the sidewall in one place or another. I can't find any brand name on the tires at all, but I assume they are passenger car tires and not rated for the van. I'm planning to replace the wheels and tires in the fall when I have some disposable cash - think I'm okay to wait till then?

Thu Jul 17, 2008 4:17 pm

I would not wait!! Bulging sidewalls are an accident waiting to happen. Replace them as soon as you possibly can.

Thu Jul 17, 2008 6:13 pm

GWTWTLW wrote: I would not wait!! Bulging sidewalls are an accident waiting to happen.
I second that, unless you're going to park the van or keep your speeds down to about 20 mph. Seriously, borrow some $$$ from family or friends if you need to and replace them now.