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Sat Jul 19, 2008 9:52 pm

Thanks in advance for your patience.

I'm working through figuring out my first clutch install. I'm following the manual, but can't identify these two pieces:

Its a '79 motor, for what it's worth.

Thanks all!

Sat Jul 19, 2008 9:58 pm

Pilot bearing (the bearing thing), goes into the end of the crankshaft AFTER removing the old one, and the plastic thing is your clutch alignment tool, used to center the clutch cover (pressure plate) onto the flywheel.
Use your Bentley manual, or the Muir book is pretty good, too. Easy job( once your engine is out!). :lol:

Sat Jul 19, 2008 10:09 pm

OK, I know that my noob is really going to show, but you are telling me the same thing that I read in the Bently, but I can't connect it with what I am seeing. Here's a pick of the front of my motor:

I assume that the crankshaft is what I am looking at here, but I am yet to find an old pilot bearing. Can you help me make sense of this?

Thanks!

Sat Jul 19, 2008 10:14 pm

looks like the bearing is already out, i think.....how long has the motor been out of the van????

Or is it new to you???

Sat Jul 19, 2008 10:17 pm

Your old pilot bearing has experienced a total failure, only the shell is there. The pilot bearing fits dead center in the crankshaft. Since your old one is so badly damaged it will be hard to remove. You need to check the condition of the end of the input shaft on the tranny. It may be badly damaged from the failed pilot bearing.

Sat Jul 19, 2008 10:27 pm

OK, Thanks. That presents a few more questions...anyone have any suggestions on how to remove that shell? and what do you think of my input shaft at first glance:

Ho hum.

Sun Jul 20, 2008 12:51 pm

Wow I have not seen anything that bad in a while. The shell that is left can be pried out with a screw driver. Or tap in on one side and pry. The crank is pretty hard so you should not hurt it. Try to tap on an angle to not to scratch the crank. You can bend the crap out of the bearing case. Try and slid the new pilot bearing on the end of the input shaft to see if there is too much play. You might need to replace the input shaft. Take it to your trany guy to see if it looks bad. To me it has seen better days. The problem is now the bearing that is inside the trany has been working hard to keep the shaft straight and is probably also had the biscuit.

Sun Jul 20, 2008 1:01 pm

Thanks Brett,

I slid the bearing onto the input shaft, and it seems to sit well on it. The input shaft feels smooth and unscored, but I'm not sure what I should be looking for. If you're wondering why it looks so bad in there, I'm fixing a duel input shaft/main seal failure, so there was a lot of oil in that case when I took it off.

Here's my biggest concern: now that the guide and throwout bearing are out, there is a lot of play on the input shaft. Any idea if that's right?

And I'm working on getting the bearing out....

Thanks

Sun Jul 20, 2008 1:02 pm

greenbus pilot wrote: the plastic thing is your clutch alignment tool, used to center the clutch cover (pressure plate) onto the flywheel.

The clutch alignment tool does nothing to "center" the pressure plate. The pressure plate goes on lined up with the bolt holes, there is no adjustment there. The centering tool centers the clutch discbetween the flywheel and the pressure plate. If it isn't centered properly, you won't be able to mate the engine and tranny.

Sun Jul 20, 2008 1:11 pm

Cpav wrote: Thanks Brett,

I slid the bearing onto the input shaft, and it seems to sit well on it. The input shaft feels smooth and unscored, but I'm not sure what I should be looking for. If you're wondering why it looks so bad in there, I'm fixing a duel input shaft/main seal failure, so there was a lot of oil in that case when I took it off.

Here's my biggest concern: now that the guide and throwout bearing are out, there is a lot of play on the input shaft. Any idea if that's right?

And I'm working on getting the bearing out....

Thanks

I haven't done one of these but from what I can remember there is a little play. The bearing on the inside of the trany handles that end and the pilot bearing on the other keeps it straight. You would see the old bearing case that is still in the crank all battered to pieces if the shaft had too much play and was bouncing around

Sun Jul 20, 2008 1:22 pm

I believe that you might be suggesting that the reason my pilot bearing is destroyed is because the bearing inside of the tranny is shot, and it allowed the shaft to bounce around and tear up the pilot bearing.

Is this what you are suggesting.

:-(

Sun Jul 20, 2008 1:28 pm

The other way around. The grease in the pilot bearing dried up and the roller bearings fell out and the shaft might have been bouncing on that end causing the input shaft bearing to wear. The input shaft bearing seal might be worn due to the fact the bearing on the inside is worn though. You might want to have a trany guy check the play in the input shaft bearing just in case. You may be wasting an input shaft seal if there is play.

Sun Jul 20, 2008 9:18 pm

VDubTech wrote: greenbus pilot wrote: the plastic thing is your clutch alignment tool, used to center the clutch cover (pressure plate) onto the flywheel.

The clutch alignment tool does nothing to "center" the pressure plate. The pressure plate goes on lined up with the bolt holes, there is no adjustment there. The centering tool centers the clutch discbetween the flywheel and the pressure plate. If it isn't centered properly, you won't be able to mate the engine and tranny.

Yes, you are right- I stand corrected. I have seen my error and its like deja vu all over again. :roll:

Sun Jul 20, 2008 9:55 pm

it looks to me like the input shaft seal is bad too. have a look at replacing that.

Sun Jul 20, 2008 11:44 pm

The bearing surface on the input shaft looks amazingly good. Clean it well and if there are any nicks run a fine file over them and then polish it with a very fine emery cloth. I don't think that you could hurt the bearing in the tranny very easily. The shaft has a joint in it that allows it to move around. The movement you are seeing is probably normal. If you have a local shop that is familiar with these trannys you could have them look at it for your peace of mind.

Mon Jul 21, 2008 6:42 am

Thank you all for your insights.

The input shaft seal is definitely shot: so much so that I can move the shaft side to side and it loses contact with the seal. No problem though. I bought that seal as well. I suspected both were shot, and I was right.

Thanks Wildthings, for the peace of mind you offered. I've never seen a good or a bad input shaft, so I appreciate the look by someone who has. I'll clean it up and change the seals, and put everything back in order.

Thanks again.

Mon Jul 21, 2008 6:50 am

germansupplyscott wrote: it looks to me like the input shaft seal is bad too. have a look at replacing that.

Totally agree and if the movement on the input shaft is more than a 1/4" up and down its time to look at the upper mainshaft bearing inside.

This is usually want happens:
Tranny oil level gets too low,
Mainshaft bearing (upper bearing) starts to wear due to lack of oil
Mainshaft now has slop and movenment and the pilot seal gets mashed along with the pilot shaft bearing.

This repeats its self if you don't correct the original problem inside the tranny.

Mon Jul 21, 2008 6:58 am

funny how i recently dealt with my pilot bearing, and in the month or so since then, ive seen 3 or 4 people have to deal with it as well... hadnt even heard of it before that.

just thought i'd offer as an FYI, my FLAPS rented me a pilot bearing removal tool, it was basically free if i returned it within 45 days. i was left with just the outer race of the bearing as well, and i had tried screwdrivers, chisels, picks, etc and could not get that thing to do what i wanted, the bearing puller took it right out with no fuss at all. definitely definitely worth it. :wink:

Sat Jul 26, 2008 1:29 pm

Wait...I was going back through this and I realized that you might have been suggesting I can inspect the mainshaft bearing without opening the transaxle. is that the case? Will I see it behind the input shaft seal if I remove it?

Are there any other explanations of a failed pilot bearing than a bad mainshaft bearing?

Thanks!

Sat Jul 26, 2008 3:42 pm

Cpav wrote: Wait...I was going back through this and I realized that you might have been suggesting I can inspect the mainshaft bearing without opening the transaxle. is that the case? Will I see it behind the input shaft seal if I remove it?

Are there any other explanations of a failed pilot bearing than a bad mainshaft bearing?

Thanks!

The VW pilot bearing is a POS. Very common for them to fail, just another good example of FdUP German engineering. I have been seriously thinking about getting some oilite bushings made and use those. VW started out with a bushing, but the German mind couldn't handle it so they went to an underdesigned bearing to replace it. I am all for going back to a bushing. At least a bushing will fail slowly and not all at once like bearing. I don't like things that let me down on the road unexpectedly and the pilot bearing is one of those.