TheSamba.com :: View topic

Wed Jul 23, 2008 1:20 pm

I have 2332 engine fuel injected plus NOS, in a mid engine sand rail
Recently I sheared the 8 dowel pins and the gland nut from the crank.

Racers have told me with my horse power I will continue to have problems and they recommend going to a wedge crank.

I have been told that the down side is removing the flywheel after it has been mated.

Can some one with wedged crank experience give me the run down?

Wed Jul 23, 2008 1:22 pm

Get flanged, you'll never break that apart. :wink:

Wed Jul 23, 2008 4:15 pm

I used to run a welded 82mm crank with wedgemated flywheel. I'm now using a wedgemated 84mm Okrasa.

I made a flywheel removal tool out of an old F&S pressure plate and have never had a problem removing either flywheel. Kinda like this:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=335403

Actually use it on 8 doweled flywheels too, much better than prying on a case with screwdrivers.

Wed Jul 23, 2008 4:56 pm

there are lots of guys out there running 8 doweled cranks on the street and strip with large engines and even large turbo engines... shearing 8 dowel pins would indicate that the glandnut either broke from being over-torqued or it was never torqued enough... that said, in my 2276cc turbo engine, i think i'm gonna wedgemate just to be "safe"...

Wed Jul 23, 2008 6:14 pm

Keep it positive.

I understand about loose and over tightened gland nuts causing problems.
This motor has had a few seasons on it so don't beleive either was the case, but any thing is possible.

With slicks I can break traction any time I give it to much throttle 700lb rail with paddles it hooks up hard so I believe that torque caused the problem

I have been told by many top racers and professional engine builders that Horse power can and will cause breakage to the dowel pins / gland nut.

That being said, what I am looking for are info from people who run the wedge as I have been told it is the best way to go.

Is there any reason other then my pocket book not to go wedge as it sounds like cheap insurance.

Thanks for the info on the puller what is the reverse procedure for installing it

Does the shimming process change

Wed Jul 23, 2008 8:58 pm

I’m a big fan of wedge mated combos but I also torque all my gland nuts to 600lbs, with a goop of lock-tight!!! On a light rail like yours the front tires should lift b-4 the flywheel should have any problems. Is there a chance that the gland nut was not all that tight or that the dowels did not have a nice tight fit?
The shimming is the same. and they can be a B,I,T,C,H to remove!!!! :D

Wed Jul 23, 2008 9:43 pm

miniman82 wrote: Get flanged, you'll never break that apart. :wink:

Nick this is what Berg said............ This assures accurate ignition timing, smoother running and reduced spark scatter, which are common problems with flanged crankshafts. We only wedgemate Gene Berg cranks and this must be done at the time of purchase. Mandatory for drag race applications. Originated for the VW by Gene Berg and Bill (our tool and die maker) in 1962.

Please let us all know about the flanged crankshaft.

Wed Jul 23, 2008 10:27 pm

You'll hear more bearing issues with a split bearing on flanged cranks.

Wedgemate is a no brainer and you use standard bearings.....unless you go type4 center main bearing.

Thu Jul 24, 2008 8:27 am

Your on the right track and what the other engine builders have told you is correct.
Regardless of car weight, gland nut torque etc, its the sudden burst in power with NOS, coupled with the fact that your running a paddle tire that breaks the dowels. You will need a flywheel puller like RIS suggested to set end play.

As for the bearing concern, if your not already running a type 4 center main on that crank you will wish you where, so while its apart do that too if not already done.

Wedgemate the crank and move on. :wink:

Fri Jul 25, 2008 2:51 pm

You can buy a Wedgemate puller from Ron Lummas Racing...It kicks Ass!

Fri Jul 25, 2008 3:16 pm

My two strip engines and my street strip engine are wedgemated. From personal experience even with wedgemating if you only initially torque the gland nut to 250 ft lbs and forget to finish torqueing it to 450 ft lbs the flywheel falls off, a $400 mistake. I used my press before making a homemade puller from a gutted pressure plate. The way to fix end play on the flanged crank is to make sure the rear main thrust is ground a little smaller and fit the rear main bearing. If I was to race again it would be with a crank trigger ignition. I chose wedgemating since I all ready had the cranks. $600 for wedgemating vs 3 new cranks.

Fri Jul 25, 2008 3:40 pm

We need more interest in this... no more problems!

Fri Jul 25, 2008 5:26 pm

Well Junior, you need a couple of high profile racers to survive a full season with some big turbo motors to not lose their flywheels with your device. Then get their endorsement and get HVWs to do a feature article. Perhaps then interest would be generated for your product.... Not that it doesn't work but for the coin, I think we are waiting for more then just your word....

I'm not trying to bust your chops, it is just how I see it.

Fri Jul 25, 2008 7:30 pm

perrib wrote: I used my press before making a homemade puller from a gutted pressure plate.

I use a large screwdriver and a hammer. :lol:

I'm not kidding. It's a trick that Judy Kawell posted on the CLF. You wedge the screwdriver between the case and the backside of the flywheel. You then use the hammer and begin tapping the front of the flywheel out near the ring-gear; don't hit the ring-gear, don't "pound" the flywheel. You're just trying to get the flywheel ringing, and those resonant vibrations slowly loosen the hold of the morse-taper. It works, it doesn't damage the case of flywheel, and it doesn't damage the taper.

Fri Jul 25, 2008 7:35 pm

Here a puller I made years ago, it used a two arm gear puller and a old gland nut.

You put the puller through the slots and center the gear puller in the old gland nut, I dont have the puller any more or I would have used it in the picture but you get the idea. [I hope]

Earthquake

Fri Jul 25, 2008 7:48 pm

perrib wrote: My two strip engines and my street strip engine are wedgemated. From personal experience even with wedgemating if you only initially torque the gland nut to 250 ft lbs and forget to finish torqueing it to 450 ft lbs the flywheel falls off, a $400 mistake. I used my press before making a homemade puller from a gutted pressure plate. The way to fix end play on the flanged crank is to make sure the rear main thrust is ground a little smaller and fit the rear main bearing. If I was to race again it would be with a crank trigger ignition. I chose wedgemating since I all ready had the cranks. $600 for wedgemating vs 3 new cranks.

Well this will be a good one. Gene said never to use a puller. Flywheel endpay is a trick. Also you need to drive the flywheel home with the crankshaft. The toque wrench will not work.

Mon Jul 28, 2008 8:53 pm

Stripped66 wrote: perrib wrote: I used my press before making a homemade puller from a gutted pressure plate.

I use a large screwdriver and a hammer. :lol:

I'm not kidding. It's a trick that Judy Kawell posted on the CLF. You wedge the screwdriver between the case and the backside of the flywheel. You then use the hammer and begin tapping the front of the flywheel out near the ring-gear; don't hit the ring-gear, don't "pound" the flywheel. You're just trying to get the flywheel ringing, and those resonant vibrations slowly loosen the hold of the morse-taper. It works, it doesn't damage the case of flywheel, and it doesn't damage the taper.

Jason I use a rivet gun. You can get your end play before installation of the flywheel. You need to measure the depth of the crank to flywheel depth plus shims that ride on crankshaft from the end of the main bearing surface. Subtract the 2 measurements and subtract the amount of end play you want to run.