TheSamba.com :: View topic

Thu Jul 24, 2008 8:18 pm

Ok, the motor in my trike is pulled out and down almost completely. If the rains stops it'll get torn down the rest of the way. For now I'm researching. Hopefully I'll be building a 1776 or a 1915 for it.

But right now I'm trying to learn about the heads. It has been suggested to me that I try to get 043 or 044 heads. What are the differences between the two? What would make one better than others? What makes them better than stock?

I want, would like, however you wish to word it, power from idle all the way up to red line. So far it seems from research here and other places that stock valves are probably the best bet size-wise for me.

Sarge

Thu Jul 24, 2008 9:08 pm

The principle difference between the 2 heads is that 043 is an OEM VW casting, where 044 heads are cast by Autolinea for companies like CB performance.

Being OEM castings, 043's are somewhat limited in their ability to have larger valves installed in them (unless you're not averse to a little welding, of course). 40x35 valves with porting are available with no welding, but above that (or if you need special runner designs), you'll be looking at some welding.

044's are a different animal. They are designed to be, I believe, an evolutionary step forward from the 041/043 casting. In other words, if the factory had produced a head for high power/huge valves, the 044 would be it. It's still got most of the cooling capacity a stock head has, but it's reinforced in critical areas to allow for quite large valves, and combustion chamber reshaping/modification.

But the factory didn't produce the 044-the aftermarket did. As such, sometimes the quality of 044's is somewhat dubious. For the most part though, they are great heads to base a high-HP engine on. I built my 1915 turbo with CB's 044 CNC round port, with 42x37.5 valves.

Pricing can vary widely also, but 044's normally are a tad more in price than an 043 of similar specification. That being the case (I know money is an issue for you), I'd opt for either stock valved 041 or 043 heads that have been worked by a reputable head porter. The OEM casting should give you years of cool reliable use, and you can be assured of getting what you pay for if you shop with the recommended people (Tims, DRD, ect).

For example, a 1915 with DRD L3's, a 110 cam, and twin Solex carbs would motivate your trike nicely, and last a long time. If you can't afford DRD, you don't have many options. Maybe just build a mild 1776 with new stock heads?

Fri Jul 25, 2008 10:42 am

Cool thanks. Looks like DRD's are $575 apiece so may have to drop that idea. Unless some major job offer comes thru soonest. Things went downhill over night. Woke up this morning to news that my current company is doing their best to get rid of me. Dropped my insurance and the first notice I got was in a certified letter this morning. After of course we've been to the Doc three or four times.

If I drop back to a 1776 I know the case needs some machining. Do I need to split the cases for that? I'm guessing that I do. If I need to split the cases I may just stick with a 1600 or 1641. I can't feel any wobble or rock in anything. A look with a see-snake shows no "evident" problems.

In the same vein since I had detonation on 3 out of 4 cylinders, should I split the cases anyway and swallow the fact that it means the trike may be down longer than hoped for?

Sarge

Fri Jul 25, 2008 11:20 am

Thats $575 per pair for DRD L3's-great stock ported heads-I have a set. He will set them up for your cam (proper coil bind and spring pressure is important), and you can buy new match ported manifolds from him or send him yours and he can match port those as well-or you can always do it yourself when you get the heads.

http://drdracingheads.com/heads/heads_L3.php

Fri Jul 25, 2008 11:42 am

D'OH! Read that wrong obviously! Still a little over $200 more. But definitely a better head. Just no idea what cam is in this motor.;

Sarge

Fri Jul 25, 2008 11:43 am

Incorrect timing, bad/ incorrect distributor, excessive compression, jetting, air leaks missing cooling tin, incorrect spark plugs, etc cause an engine to detonate. I would of wanted to find out and repair the cause of the detonation first. Do you need more power than what you had? Were the pistons and heads damaged by the detonation? The engine case should be split to evaluate the bearings, etc. Head ports and valve size need to match the application.

Fri Jul 25, 2008 11:59 am

Well the detonation came about cause I timed the motor wrong, I can almost bet ya on that. Learned that lesson. Distributor is a possibility as it's a 009 and when I finally hit it with a timing light seemed all over the place. Carbie is a Solex H30/31 and I'd be willing to bet it leaks like crazy after seeing it up close when I pulled it.

Power-wise, yes I need more. Granted the trike is very light but she was a touch slow off the line and top end was limited. I run with a bunch of mostly non-stock HD's and import bikes. I have no wish to be the one holding folks up. Plus I myself do not like to be the slow-mo.

3 of the 4 pistons and cylinders show detonation marks (1, 2, and 3). The bottom end is approximately 4-5 years old I just found out. Parts of it are newer as the cam was put in two years ago. They didn't bother to write down what cam it was tho.

Heck, I'd stay with a 1600 IF it could be made to do as I wish and desire. I know there are serious gains to be had in the heads but my current heads are mismatched and I'm guessing that isn't the best thing (or so I've been told by some, others seem to disagree). One is a 143 and the other is a 134. IF I'm reading them right that is. I have 311.101.173A on the top line and under that a VW emblem and 143 or 134. The 134 is the one with the cracked valve seat. Intake port on #3 and the seat is lower than all others.

I'm on a yahoo trike list and I've got a dude there who keeps swearing by the 1600 with some work. But then he insists no one needs any extra power and typically does 45 everywhere.

Sarge

Fri Jul 25, 2008 12:01 pm

What is an 040 head?

Thanks.

Fri Jul 25, 2008 12:26 pm

All I could tell from a fast trip thru google is those are stock VW heads and the folks who use VW power in planes seem to like them. hopefully someone else comes along and helps ya!

Sarge

Fri Jul 25, 2008 2:46 pm

With a cracked head you might as well buy two new DP heads. To get any significant HP out of a 1600 you need to spin more rpms. A full flow oil pump and filter is the first upgrade you need. You could build a 1776 with a Engle 100 style cam, stone stock dual port heads, stock vacuum advance distributor, dog house oil cooler stock 34 pict carb, small extractor exhaust. DeMello or DPR could supply you with a rebuilt crank, rods, cam and lifters. This would only cost $200.00 more than building a 1641 and make a lot more torque. Around $2k.
Next bump about $1000.00 more would be adding a cw crank, 94 mm pistons, Engle 110 cam, balancing, dual Kadrons and an external oil cooler. The stock heads would still work but a mild port job for the cam would make a a very noticeable difference as would a 82 mm crank.

Depending on how much power you need thes two style engines may be enough.
Building them with all new parts will add at least a grand to the cost of each one.

Fri Jul 25, 2008 3:49 pm

mikemck wrote: What is an 040 head?

Thanks.

stock.

kinda like computer software.... the higher the number, the newer it is.

040-XXX-XXX-xXXX etc was baseline
major design change=
041, 043, 044,

get it?