TheSamba.com :: View topic - Flat-track racing help needed

Fri Jul 25, 2008 12:41 pm

One of my friends and I are looking into turning a '71 super beetle I have sitting around into a flat-track derby car, on a budget. I am looking for advice on how to build a performance air-cooled engine cheaply. Also, any information on racing suspension (sway bars, lowering kits... etc), brake systems, weight reduction, anything race related would be helpful. Low cost custom modifications are great, and we will also be looking for bolt-on upgrades and various performance parts. Any input is greatly appreciated.

thanks,
-Nathan

Fri Jul 25, 2008 3:58 pm

run a trick stock engine with a great suspension/shocks.

catch them at the corners :wink:

then, build your dream engine. dont skimp on it, it CANNNOT be done CORRECTLY.

Sat Jul 26, 2008 7:57 pm

I'm not looking to build a cheap full-on performance engine, I'm new to this... but not that new! I know that can't be done. What I'm looking for are simple and affordable ways to give the car a little get-up-and-go, because the stock 1600 is well, a dog. I noticed a posting about cheaply converting an EFI system from a jetta or other vw to fit a type 1, things like that are what I'm looking for. Also, if a more radical cam and a few other parts will give me a noticable hp boost I'm all for it.

The other thing is, I know a good suspension is crucial.. I do not, however, know how to improve the stock suspension other than adding a sway-bar and replacing my old struts. Any pointers?

Plus, if you know any areas in the body that have 'extra' steel that can be removed to lighten the car up, I'm trying to find some of them. Especially if I can cut out a reasonably large area and put in a brace to maintain strength.

thanks

Sun Jul 27, 2008 5:29 am

formula_vee_71 wrote: One of my friends and I are looking into turning a '71 super beetle I have sitting around into a flat-track derby car, on a budget. I am looking for advice on how to build a performance air-cooled engine cheaply. Also, any information on racing suspension (sway bars, lowering kits... etc), brake systems, weight reduction, anything race related would be helpful. Low cost custom modifications are great, and we will also be looking for bolt-on upgrades and various performance parts. Any input is greatly appreciated.

thanks,
-Nathan
are you going to enter sanctioned events? if so, i would find out what the modifications are allowed in your class. if not racing and just 'riding' check the rules with the local track on what is mandatory. the cheapest high performance bolt-on to me is raising the compression ratio then tuning it to run properly. on a flat track racing a bug you also have to remember if you get 'bumped' from behind there is a good chance your motor will suffer. also if you get hit at the rear wheel that trailing arm will bend.

Sun Jul 27, 2008 8:30 am

I ran a dirt circle track Super beetle for 7 years until the local track closed. You'll find it's all about handling- Not Horsepower....Although horsepower does make it a little easier to run up front.
super beetles work Great for that type of racing.
Paul

Sun Jul 27, 2008 9:01 am

I talked to the friend that is interested in racing, and he's only thinking about one event right now, and it's more of an anything goes backwoods race than anything. But I would like to start on the small local tracks and slowly work into actual sanctioned events where there are more regulations.
And about getting bumped from the back.. I'll look into what I can do as far as fabricating an engine guard. And for the trailing arms, I found some boxed arms with additional shock mounts for sale locally, would these be a worthwhile investment? I was also wondering if I could use the other shock mounts to improve my handling..

So paul, how did you set up your dirt track bug? Any suspension modifications, or just replace old worn parts?

I did some looking at weight reduction, and since the car will only be for racing and bombing around backroads, I wont need a trunk. Do you think it would be worth the time and effort to gut the trunk and put an additional strut brace in? I was thinking this would also give me better access to the steering/front suspension for work or modification...

And if boosting the compression ratio and tuning properly will be enough for the motor for now, that may be what I do for now. I have a few other engine cases/partial engines/engine parts laying around (unfortunatly mostly stock) to play with, I would really like to try grafting an EFI system onto one..

thanks for the help

Sun Aug 10, 2008 9:36 am

Here are some pictures of the car when I bought it... pretty much the same as it looks now, except it now has a running motor.
Hopefully pretty soon we can start doing some motor work, and set up the suspension. And it really needs some body work..

[img]http://groups.msn.com/FormulaVeeRacing/shoebox.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=1[/img]
[img]http://groups.msn.com/FormulaVeeRacing/shoebox.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=3[/img]
[img]http://groups.msn.com/FormulaVeeRacing/shoebox.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=4[/img]
[img]http://groups.msn.com/FormulaVeeRacing/shoebox.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=5[/img]

Sun Aug 10, 2008 1:04 pm

I was running a 73 super. I cut all the metal away that the front struts mounted to, and replaced it with slotted plate steel for the upper strut mounts, and tyed it all into my front cage. The strut mount area was slotted to allow for more camber adjustment. I also modified the front struts by cutting away some of the lower spring perches, and replacing the Stock spring with 10" x 2-1/2" springs (90#, and 100#spring rate)with a threaded, adjustable spring perch. Bought all the stuff from Speedway motors. I also eliminated the stock rear shocks, cut off the upper mounts and installed some longer, adjustable coil-over shocks. If you are running a circle-track you need to put a stiffer spring in the LR than the RR. I also had good luck with trying different wheel offfsets. If the local track hadn't closed , I'd still be racing there. I really miss it. It was by FAR the most fun I've ever had running my VW. I've since owned a couple Drag Bugs, and they aren't even a tenth as much fun as the Circletrack car. Just not enough seat time in the drags. The biggest downfall of the dirt cars is the fact they suffer A LOT of collision damage. Your most used tools will be a Big hammer, a welder, a port-A-power, and some torches. Also, for the motor - a VZ-14 cam works great! Instant throttle reponse with a single 44IDF. Have fun!
Paul

Sun Aug 10, 2008 1:32 pm

How cheaply is "cheap?" :D

The better way is come up w/ a budget you can live w/ and see what can be done w/ it. There will be people here who can help you out for most of this stuff. Parts, insights/ tech support, machine work/balance work, so on.

What engine parts do you have now? Is the tranny ship-shape?

Mon Aug 11, 2008 2:59 pm

I really have no idea what the budget is at this point. I know I can't afford to drop a dime into the car thanks to college tuition. So it depends how much Josh can afford to spend. He is going to machine a set of heads for it, and see if any of his friends have high compression pistons and cylinders.

Most of my engine parts are stock, sadly. And the tranny is an unknown.. the car moves under its own power but I'm not sure if it it will hold up to racing