TheSamba.com :: View topic

Sat Jul 26, 2008 4:31 am

OK, I'm getting shit from folks on my intended usage of my trike. Regular cruise is 70-80 mph. Occasional cruises of around 90. Runs of over 100 mph would be expected. Hard off the line and pushed thru corners and twisties. Also in the future the trike will be used for cross country trips by the wife and I. I'm being told that VW's wont handle the speed of my rides on a constant basis. I've read nothing that says it's not true. What say you?

Sarge

Sat Jul 26, 2008 5:20 am

Nothing wrong with the 70-80 MPH part, but the 90, & 100 MPH part on public highways is just plain foolish. If you are asking m permission to break the law, my only remark is it's your life. Just be ready to pay the price.

Sat Jul 26, 2008 6:05 am

What part of St.Louis?? you sure you are not driving a Porche??
Properly built timed tuned vehicle with lots of Money poured into to it.
But by Golly on public roads with deer coming out of the woods and all. :(

Sat Jul 26, 2008 6:50 am

VSarge wrote: OK, I'm getting shit from folks on my intended usage of my trike. Regular cruise is 70-80 mph. Occasional cruises of around 90. Runs of over 100 mph would be expected. Hard off the line and pushed thru corners and twisties. Also in the future the trike will be used for cross country trips by the wife and I. I'm being told that VW's wont handle the speed of my rides on a constant basis. I've read nothing that says it's not true. What say you?

Sarge

I like the fact that you have absolutely no safety equipment and dare to run at above-legal speeds...

I knew there was a reason to put you on my ignore list...

Sat Jul 26, 2008 6:59 am

If you still need training wheels you probably shouldnt be driving that fast.. ...get a real motorcycle

Sat Jul 26, 2008 7:05 am

You wanna off yourself, fine. Just don't take your wife or anyone else with you.

Sat Jul 26, 2008 8:36 am

Without the obvious commentary on how dangerous it is to drive like that on three wheels, or the threat to other people, etc., which has already been made apparent, I'd say that these engines were designed to make max power at around 4000-4500 RPM out of the box.

Realizing that your vehicle is light (and frail), and you probably have stock gearing for a T1 transmission, I'd say that you'll be pushing those RPMs at those speeds, and while the engine can make power there, it's longevity is a function of tuning, balance, and maintenance.

I run my bay window bus at freeway speeds regularly with a beefed up T1 engine (1848cc with some head porting and stock sized valves, and a mild cam) and I regularly see nearly 4000 RPM for long periods. The engine is balanced to the max, with 0.1g weight tolerance on rods and pistons, and a crank assembly balance suitable for sustained 7500-9000 RPM. It may be overkill, but it's a good reason my oil pressure is rock solid and has been for 45000 miles so far. While the engine rarely makes it over 5000 RPM, it is smooth as glass. The only reason I know it's running is because I can hear it.

Balance is EVERYTHING, and state of tune counts for a lot too. Lack of balance causes flex, point loading, and a lot of vibration that can't be good for anything but your girlfriend.

Sat Jul 26, 2008 9:52 am

Sarge, I've been following your posts for a while and have to step in here. You remind me of a new kid that reads too many magazines about sports cars (in your case sports bikes) and decides they need a Ferrarri, and have the change that sits on the night stand to do it with. You want loads of low-end torque for quick starts. You want fast excelleration. You want high speeds for long periods of time. You want the ablity to exhibit 100mph blasts to impress. With that, is slot car-like cornering and cross-country reliability. Manufacturers have been working on those same issues for years and offer us transportation that usually give a couple of those "wants" satisfied depending on what you are willing to pay. A very few will offer up something that will meet all of those demands, but get your check book ready. To do what you want on three wheels is asking a ton. A large motor with it's HP and torque below 4500rpms. A 5 speed trans. with the gearing spread out to use those horses all the way up. A chassis that will keep its footprint on the ground at all times and not become out of balance in cornering or accelleration or braking. While a triangle is one of the strongest shapes in the world, it is only that in a two dimensional world. I assume you and your wife will add some height to this equation and so the strength at your base is negated by the higher center of gravity and you become a story on the second page of the local newspaper. Think about all those biker buds of yours that go into a corner at 80mph and take their pegs down another 1/4 inch in a shower of sparks. And you have to slow down to get around that same corner. Or the stop light changing, and you having to catch up to them because of your lack of steering because of that "cool" wheely you did. Those, my friend, are the laws of physics continuing to work against you.

Sat Jul 26, 2008 3:20 pm

Rage on Sarge
Most people on this site can't walk and chew gum at the same time,let alone drive over 55. Their all stuck in the left lane going 10 under with the blinker on!!
Gotta think 1 step ahead of them
On the turnpike in Florida you would get runover at anything less than 80,Grandma goes 90
Must be a parking lot in Cali

I'll say Thank You for your service to Our country

Semper FI

Sat Jul 26, 2008 6:21 pm

mharney wrote: Without the obvious commentary on how dangerous it is to drive like that on three wheels, or the threat to other people, etc., which has already been made apparent, I'd say that these engines were designed to make max power at around 4000-4500 RPM out of the box.

Realizing that your vehicle is light (and frail), and you probably have stock gearing for a T1 transmission, I'd say that you'll be pushing those RPMs at those speeds, and while the engine can make power there, it's longevity is a function of tuning, balance, and maintenance.

I run my bay window bus at freeway speeds regularly with a beefed up T1 engine (1848cc with some head porting and stock sized valves, and a mild cam) and I regularly see nearly 4000 RPM for long periods. The engine is balanced to the max, with 0.1g weight tolerance on rods and pistons, and a crank assembly balance suitable for sustained 7500-9000 RPM. It may be overkill, but it's a good reason my oil pressure is rock solid and has been for 45000 miles so far. While the engine rarely makes it over 5000 RPM, it is smooth as glass. The only reason I know it's running is because I can hear it.

Balance is EVERYTHING, and state of tune counts for a lot too. Lack of balance causes flex, point loading, and a lot of vibration that can't be good for anything but your girlfriend.

Thank you for an actual answer.

Sarge

Sat Jul 26, 2008 6:34 pm

Iowa Mark wrote: Sarge, I've been following your posts for a while and have to step in here. You remind me of a new kid that reads too many magazines about sports cars (in your case sports bikes) and decides they need a Ferrarri, and have the change that sits on the night stand to do it with.

Sorry the closest I've been to a sport bike other than occasional rides is a Honda Magna which is supposedly classed a Sport Cruiser. These are questions I asked prior to getting the trike and was told "No problem". Most of my previous riding as been on older HD's and older imports and yes, they were all even the HD's capable of the above mentioned uses. The HDs as they were older and not well taken care of prior to my owning them had problems but were easily fixed. My '81 GoldWing did it with no problems for almost 400K miles.

Iowa Mark wrote: You want loads of low-end torque for quick starts. You want fast excelleration. You want high speeds for long periods of time. You want the ablity to exhibit 100mph blasts to impress. With that, is slot car-like cornering and cross-country reliability. Manufacturers have been working on those same issues for years and offer us transportation that usually give a couple of those "wants" satisfied depending on what you are willing to pay. A very few will offer up something that will meet all of those demands, but get your check book ready. To do what you want on three wheels is asking a ton. A large motor with it's HP and torque below 4500rpms. A 5 speed trans. with the gearing spread out to use those horses all the way up. A chassis that will keep its footprint on the ground at all times and not become out of balance in cornering or accelleration or braking. While a triangle is one of the strongest shapes in the world, it is only that in a two dimensional world. I assume you and your wife will add some height to this equation and so the strength at your base is negated by the higher center of gravity and you become a story on the second page of the local newspaper. Think about all those biker buds of yours that go into a corner at 80mph and take their pegs down another 1/4 inch in a shower of sparks. And you have to slow down to get around that same corner. Or the stop light changing, and you having to catch up to them because of your lack of steering because of that "cool" wheely you did. Those, my friend, are the laws of physics continuing to work against you.

Well to be honest so far in the form it is now I can and do take the same corners at the same speed or better. But then none of them are ricky racers. I've always been faster in the corners than most of them. The fastest I know of that I ride with rides a HD with apes too tall for me.

I prefer to not do wheelies, after all I have to fix it but I will do them on occasion. Trikes do not have to steer bad despite the old thought that this was so. I can cure the wheelie problem and up the steering ability with a leading link front end also. Which can be made by my local welding shop for not very much coin.

However I understand the issues you brought up and do my best to deal with them. The trikes weight is deliberately more than it could be in order to add more weight down low. The solid steel floor whereas I would prefer either just pegs or a mesh type, shorter , slightly wider tires rather than taller better looking ones.

Sarge

Sat Jul 26, 2008 6:47 pm

As for most of the others thank you for the laffs! I've had three motorcycle accidents in my life (once past the learning stage and on the road. Once I was run off the road by a "friend" of my ex-wife, once I was playing on a gravel road with no one in sight and dumped it with no injuries to me or the bike and once I was rear ended. On four wheels in the past 20 years I've had two. The most recent was 4 weeks ago when I was rear ended by a semi (I was doing 75 and he was NOT. The one three years ago was a swoop and stop by someone.

I would still ride two wheels except for knee problems from 13 years of fixing jet aircraft on hard concrete and moving aircraft carriers. Even with nice soft, thick insoles the time adds up.

Speed does not equal poor driving. In most cases it is actually defensive around here. Any runs over 100 are not in traffic. Deer do not frequent the freeways and on backroads known for the forest rodents I wont be the one blasting thru the area. Speed doesn't kill, inattentive drivers/riders does. Road conditions, traffic, area and many other things all weigh in on this.

The major killers of motorcyclists and trikers? Alcohol (I do not drive drunk or tipsy), poor skills (I take riding classes every two years, also helps on the insurance by the way) and inattentive auto drivers. "Gee, I didn't see him".

And no I wasn't asking permission to break the law. If I do so I do so with full knowledge of the consequences of such. I was stating my riding style which is conservative compared to several folks I know.

Sarge

Sat Jul 26, 2008 7:56 pm

sarge, don't let em get you frustrated.... even the stockest vw engine will be up to the task of propelling your trike at the speeds you wish, your limiting factor will be RPM's... you will need to carry less RPM's than a normal type 1 in order to do the higher speeds... don't worry about the folks that will squeel that lower rpm's will equal overheating, this is a trike, not a car.... you will be using less HP to propel yourself than a type 1 sedan, so you'll be dealing with less waste heat... taller gears, and maybe larger tires.... go for it...

Sat Jul 26, 2008 8:27 pm

So basically a sound motor, maybe balanced (I believe in balancing big time!) but some work on the tranny to better spread the ratio's? Yje tries I had to install while on the road were slightly taller and I noticed it made more difference than I thought. I mean I knew taller tires is like changing a gear but those made a heck of a difference.

I don't get too upset on line very easily. Altho I know my temper is shorter right now and I apologize to folks for that. Been out of work for almost 5 weeks now.

Sarge

Sat Jul 26, 2008 8:30 pm

i believe balancing the reciprocating assembly is a necessity even in a stockish engine if you want higher operating RPMs... hell even daily driving status can benefit from balancing the engine...

for hig RPM travel you may(probably will) need an exterior oil cooler... higher rpm's cause elevated oil temperatures...

Sat Jul 26, 2008 8:38 pm

Well a thought that has occurred to me and I'm not up enough on VW motors to know if it's good, bad or indifferent is to remove the oil cooler (no tin, remember?) which is just funky sticking up like that and running an external cooler and filter.

I can balance the rods and pistons myself, if I can find my old tools and jigs but not the flywheel or crank. Yeah I take forever on the balancing but I know it's done good when I'm done.

Sarge

Sat Jul 26, 2008 8:48 pm

Here's a picture of one of the best VW three wheelers I've ever seen. I met the guy that built it several years ago down in Omaha and he did an excellent job making sure it would stay on the road. That springer is hand made from solid bar stock. It will not fold up while taking a corner or be so light as to come up into your teeth if your clutch grabs. Now that's a bike!!! :wink:

Sat Jul 26, 2008 8:54 pm

Very sweet looking. I'd like to put mine on a diet in a few places and that's kind of in the area of what I like. Mine is honestly not whaat I would have built but when you are poor you take what you can get. *grin* Have a bud who gave me an offer I couldn't pass up basically. Traded my beloved Magna straight across for it.

Sarge