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Mon Aug 11, 2008 10:15 pm

I was wondering, We have come to the peak of type 3 interest and availability of parts, in part due to the internet, but how long will it last? As it is, there are not many cars out there, second even though some parts are being reproduced, it is not a high paying market due to lack of interest. What would haappen when people that are in the 1500 club, type 34 registry and nuts like Tram, Russ, Snotchback, Bertrand and many other type 3 guru's outgrow or lose interest in our beloved type 3's?
The current genereations don't appreciate older cars, and even if they did, they can't afford to restore one! In the 80's we could pick and chose, now we face rustier and incomplete cars.

Mon Aug 11, 2008 10:23 pm

i remember this same question being asked after the fall of the "TYPE 3 DAY" events in the late 80s... yet, here we still are. why? because we love the car.

Mon Aug 11, 2008 11:01 pm

ALLWAGONS wrote: I was wondering, We have come to the peak of type 3 interest and availability of parts, in part due to the internet, but how long will it last? As it is, there are not many cars out there, second even though some parts are being reproduced, it is not a high paying market due to lack of interest. What would haappen when people that are in the 1500 club, type 34 registry and nuts like Tram, Russ, Snotchback, Bertrand and many other type 3 guru's outgrow or lose interest in our beloved type 3's?
The current genereations don't appreciate older cars, and even if they did, they can't afford to restore one! In the 80's we could pick and chose, now we face rustier and incomplete cars.

i take a certain amount of offense to the "current generation" statement. I'm 19, been into T3's since I got my license, and although I can't afford a "real" body off 3 year intensive restoration, I'm holding onto and slowly but surely piecing my car together for that eventuality. its not a matter of if but of when.

I think its just hysteria to think that these cars will fade into obscurity when "nuts" like tram, russ, etc get too old to work on VW's. if anything, they are the ones teaching the next generation (yeah the one that doesn't appreciate older cars). I wouldn't be here at all if it wasn't for Tram and Russ and the 1500 club.

Mon Aug 11, 2008 11:09 pm

I'd say that the Type 3 era will last until 31. July 1973.

Mon Aug 11, 2008 11:10 pm

Tram wrote: I'd say that the Type 3 era will last until 31. July 1973.

damn. the prime years have come and gone then :lol:

Mon Aug 11, 2008 11:12 pm

JSMskater wrote: Tram wrote: I'd say that the Type 3 era will last until 31. July 1973.

damn. the prime years have come and gone then :lol:

You can call me Nostradamnit.

Mon Aug 11, 2008 11:39 pm

JSMskater wrote: ALLWAGONS wrote: I was wondering, We have come to the peak of type 3 interest and availability of parts, in part due to the internet, but how long will it last? As it is, there are not many cars out there, second even though some parts are being reproduced, it is not a high paying market due to lack of interest. What would haappen when people that are in the 1500 club, type 34 registry and nuts like Tram, Russ, Snotchback, Bertrand and many other type 3 guru's outgrow or lose interest in our beloved type 3's?
The current genereations don't appreciate older cars, and even if they did, they can't afford to restore one! In the 80's we could pick and chose, now we face rustier and incomplete cars.

i take a certain amount of offense to the "current generation" statement. I'm 19, been into T3's since I got my license, and although I can't afford a "real" body off 3 year intensive restoration, I'm holding onto and slowly but surely piecing my car together for that eventuality. its not a matter of if but of when.

I think its just hysteria to think that these cars will fade into obscurity when "nuts" like tram, russ, etc get too old to work on VW's. if anything, they are the ones teaching the next generation (yeah the one that doesn't appreciate older cars). I wouldn't be here at all if it wasn't for Tram and Russ and the 1500 club.

I am 40 with reasonable funds and I still can't nor will ever finish the project as I would like to. Ask Rob Kingsbury who restored one of the nicest notchbacks around. Even he is still missing some pieces he would like to replace on his car. Now where does that put us? Less cars, less parts, less people with disposable income to spend upwards of 15-20K for a car we'll just store in a garage that maybe we'll never drive.

Mon Aug 11, 2008 11:44 pm

ALLWAGONS wrote: JSMskater wrote: ALLWAGONS wrote: I was wondering, We have come to the peak of type 3 interest and availability of parts, in part due to the internet, but how long will it last? As it is, there are not many cars out there, second even though some parts are being reproduced, it is not a high paying market due to lack of interest. What would haappen when people that are in the 1500 club, type 34 registry and nuts like Tram, Russ, Snotchback, Bertrand and many other type 3 guru's outgrow or lose interest in our beloved type 3's?
The current genereations don't appreciate older cars, and even if they did, they can't afford to restore one! In the 80's we could pick and chose, now we face rustier and incomplete cars.

i take a certain amount of offense to the "current generation" statement. I'm 19, been into T3's since I got my license, and although I can't afford a "real" body off 3 year intensive restoration, I'm holding onto and slowly but surely piecing my car together for that eventuality. its not a matter of if but of when.

I think its just hysteria to think that these cars will fade into obscurity when "nuts" like tram, russ, etc get too old to work on VW's. if anything, they are the ones teaching the next generation (yeah the one that doesn't appreciate older cars). I wouldn't be here at all if it wasn't for Tram and Russ and the 1500 club.

I am 40 with reasonable funds and I still can't nor will ever finish the project as I would like to. Ask Rob Kingsbury who restored one of the nicest notchbacks around. Even he is still missing some pieces he would like to replace on his car. Now where does that put us? Less cars, less parts, less people with disposable income to spend upwards of 15-20K for a car we'll just store in a garage that maybe we'll never drive.

Even after a full resto, I'd drive it daily, as I do now. again, i think a completely bone stock factory resto to perfection is an impossibility, no matter WHAT VW you're driving. you dont think the oval/split window bug guys and the 23 window bus guys think about what tiny little part they could still use to "perfect" their trailer queen? ultimately, its about driving and enjoying the car. if you want a perfect example, theirs a museum in wolfsburg you can go to.

Mon Aug 11, 2008 11:47 pm

JSMskater wrote: ALLWAGONS wrote: JSMskater wrote: ALLWAGONS wrote: I was wondering, We have come to the peak of type 3 interest and availability of parts, in part due to the internet, but how long will it last? As it is, there are not many cars out there, second even though some parts are being reproduced, it is not a high paying market due to lack of interest. What would haappen when people that are in the 1500 club, type 34 registry and nuts like Tram, Russ, Snotchback, Bertrand and many other type 3 guru's outgrow or lose interest in our beloved type 3's?
The current genereations don't appreciate older cars, and even if they did, they can't afford to restore one! In the 80's we could pick and chose, now we face rustier and incomplete cars.

i take a certain amount of offense to the "current generation" statement. I'm 19, been into T3's since I got my license, and although I can't afford a "real" body off 3 year intensive restoration, I'm holding onto and slowly but surely piecing my car together for that eventuality. its not a matter of if but of when.

I think its just hysteria to think that these cars will fade into obscurity when "nuts" like tram, russ, etc get too old to work on VW's. if anything, they are the ones teaching the next generation (yeah the one that doesn't appreciate older cars). I wouldn't be here at all if it wasn't for Tram and Russ and the 1500 club.

I am 40 with reasonable funds and I still can't nor will ever finish the project as I would like to. Ask Rob Kingsbury who restored one of the nicest notchbacks around. Even he is still missing some pieces he would like to replace on his car. Now where does that put us? Less cars, less parts, less people with disposable income to spend upwards of 15-20K for a car we'll just store in a garage that maybe we'll never drive.

Even after a full resto, I'd drive it daily, as I do now. again, i think a completely bone stock factory resto to perfection is an impossibility, no matter WHAT VW you're driving. you dont think the oval/split window bug guys and the 23 window bus guys think about what tiny little part they could still use to "perfect" their trailer queen? ultimately, its about driving and enjoying the car. if you want a perfect example, theirs a museum in wolfsburg you can go to.

Actually, the Wolfsburg museum got a lot of stuff WRONG, esp. when it came to T3s.

Mon Aug 11, 2008 11:52 pm

I've been to the VW museum, this thread is just a reminder for all of us not to give up on our cars. I have been into type 3's longer than many youg kids have been alive, and there are people like Russ and Paul Colbert who have been into type 3's even before I knew they were VW's. All I am saying is , how long are we going to be able to find a decent car at a rasonable price that we can actually restore. I am not speaking for the custom people, the bus people or the split and oval people. It is a rethorical question.

Tue Aug 12, 2008 12:03 am

ALLWAGONS wrote: first of all JMSkater relax, I've been to the VW museum, this thread is just a reminder for all of us not to give up on our cars. I have been into type 3's longer than you have been alive, and there are people like Russ and Paul Colbert who have been into type 3's even before I knew they were VW's. All I am saying is , how long are we going to be able to find a decent car at a rasonable price that we can actually restore. I am not speaking for the custom people, the bus people or the split and oval people. It is a rethorical question.

i dunno why you're telling me to relax... im not attacking anyone or anything. I'm just saying that your "rhetorical" question calls into play basically a doomsday mentality for the T3. you're making a big assumption about the long term popularity of a car that has been popular for over 30 years now with a certain group of people. there will always be a restorable candidate, you just have to be ready to look harder and be willing to have a realistic expectation of what it will take. and so what if you've been into t3's longer than I've been alive? It has nothing to do with this conversation.

and... if its a rhetorical question... how can you expect answers? :wink:

Tue Aug 12, 2008 12:04 am

Tram wrote: JSMskater wrote: ALLWAGONS wrote: JSMskater wrote: ALLWAGONS wrote: I was wondering, We have come to the peak of type 3 interest and availability of parts, in part due to the internet, but how long will it last? As it is, there are not many cars out there, second even though some parts are being reproduced, it is not a high paying market due to lack of interest. What would haappen when people that are in the 1500 club, type 34 registry and nuts like Tram, Russ, Snotchback, Bertrand and many other type 3 guru's outgrow or lose interest in our beloved type 3's?
The current genereations don't appreciate older cars, and even if they did, they can't afford to restore one! In the 80's we could pick and chose, now we face rustier and incomplete cars.

i take a certain amount of offense to the "current generation" statement. I'm 19, been into T3's since I got my license, and although I can't afford a "real" body off 3 year intensive restoration, I'm holding onto and slowly but surely piecing my car together for that eventuality. its not a matter of if but of when.

I think its just hysteria to think that these cars will fade into obscurity when "nuts" like tram, russ, etc get too old to work on VW's. if anything, they are the ones teaching the next generation (yeah the one that doesn't appreciate older cars). I wouldn't be here at all if it wasn't for Tram and Russ and the 1500 club.

I am 40 with reasonable funds and I still can't nor will ever finish the project as I would like to. Ask Rob Kingsbury who restored one of the nicest notchbacks around. Even he is still missing some pieces he would like to replace on his car. Now where does that put us? Less cars, less parts, less people with disposable income to spend upwards of 15-20K for a car we'll just store in a garage that maybe we'll never drive.

Even after a full resto, I'd drive it daily, as I do now. again, i think a completely bone stock factory resto to perfection is an impossibility, no matter WHAT VW you're driving. you dont think the oval/split window bug guys and the 23 window bus guys think about what tiny little part they could still use to "perfect" their trailer queen? ultimately, its about driving and enjoying the car. if you want a perfect example, theirs a museum in wolfsburg you can go to.

Actually, the Wolfsburg museum got a lot of stuff WRONG, esp. when it came to T3s.

thats why we should send you over there to show them whats what. :twisted:

iv always wanted to see the museum in person though.

Tue Aug 12, 2008 1:41 am

Martin-
I think this is a viable question, as I'd estimate that over 70% of the current, pre-1969 Type 3 crowd is probably over 30 to 35 years of age. Most of the guys, like me, Bob, Jason, Dempster, Dave Love, Pedro, Russell, etc. drove these cars while we were in high school. For me, my very first car was a Cal-look 1967 squareback. I also loved type 3's then, and especially the Notchbacks. Now that we are older and financially stronger, we can afford to repurchase our childhood dream cars and fix them up, much as our fathers aspired to have the old Corvette or Mustang they drove in their youth. The VW scene was huge in the 1980's, when most of the 1500 Club guys drove one, and then owned one, for the first time. I see where JSM might take offense to the thread, as he is keeping the dream alive for us older guys. Let's not forget that. And let's also hope that others will follow in his foot steps. But he is the exception, and not the rule. Most guys in their late teens/early twenties want a lowered car from Japan with a high proformace exhaust and a loud sound system.
And for the record, my Notch is a daily driver (even though I work from home)! :D After I spent all that money restoring her, I can't afford the gas for my F-150! :D Plus I do enjoy driving the car, and seeing people's faces when I drive by. Since my car has been completed, it's only seen the trailer once - that was the 2000 mile plus trip out for the Classic. :D

Tue Aug 12, 2008 2:35 am

Im 22, and I help the older generation keep their type 3's going. :roll:

When will it end? When everyone losses interest, or when it becomes too expensive to drive them.

Tue Aug 12, 2008 2:55 am

I'm 18 and have a pretty decent t-3. I got a PM from a guy that went to a local car show i was at on Sunday, and his wife really wants a squareback now after seeing mine.
I really don't think people will get over them. I mean look at the buses. The really nice ones now cost a fortune, but people still buy them, restore them, drive them.
Type 3's will get there at one point and time, but for now parts are relatively easy to find and are still pretty inexpensive to own.
my .02.

Tue Aug 12, 2008 3:01 am

I am 38 years old now (Just turned 38 on 30 July 2008 LOL), and relatively new in the Tyep 3 scene. But, because of the burning desire I have in Type 3's, it feels like I have been into the Type 3 scene for so long.

I also drive a super bug and a Karmann Ghia 'vert. These cars are cool, but it took me a while before I learned the ins and outs of these vee-dubs. But, When I got a Type 3, I suddenly studied it overnight, as if I was so engrossed, like an insane person, to know everything about it! As if I had that obligation to know the Type 3 at once. My reaction and enthusiasm over Type 3's are overwhelming, unexplainable, profound and so strong. And up to now, everytime I go on-line, everytime I check my vw mags and books, there is only one thing in my mind ~ The Type 3. More and more knowledge about the Type 3.

So, I believe that the Type 3 fever should last forever! We are the guys who share our fond memories on these cars practically everyday. At my law office, before I prepare the pleading in my cases, I see to it that I would check the type 3 forum at the samba and know new things about the Type 3 and share some kept knowledge to some Type 3 guys who are in need of new information and inputs.

I mean, spending time with you Type 3 guys is something else! But the experience is rewarding and the result is lasting. We are in the virtual space of the internet. And we may have not met each other, but, because of the Type 3 vee-dubs, we are connected instantly! As if we are just sharing our ideas in one room, with our respective Type 3's parked outside our rendezvous. Sharing new ideas! Isn't that great! And because of that, Type 3 will last forever! These cars will even outlive us!

Afterall, we are part of "The Type 3 Brotherhood!"

Tue Aug 12, 2008 5:25 am

ultimately, its about driving and enjoying the car. if you want a perfect example, theirs a museum in wolfsburg you can go to.[/quote]

AMEN to that! :D

Tue Aug 12, 2008 7:36 am

I think the era of walking up on some cool swag at a swap meet is over. But thats due in part to the internet and not lack of parts. I think as a group we are more educated on the cars and parts. But once again I think thats because of the internet. Yes the days are long gone when you can go into a junk yard and see 10 T3s sitting there with pristine parts for cheap ready to grab. I bet thats what you miss most Martin :wink: I sure do. But the combination of this all has made us, me included hoard alot of the stuff weve found or find. We all know about it now and its harder to find.

I dont think any kind of era for us is over, we still need our own book to be writen! I think some of the best years are yet to come. Before the internet, Id never seen a stock original early T3, now I own 2.

Tue Aug 12, 2008 7:52 am

Alas, the true golden era of the type3 is long past.

You used to be able to get any new German art you wanted at the dealer.

The 'show cars' today are primered junk that you saw in the parking lot in the 90s, and the wrecking yard in the 80s.

The stock stuff was all OG, not restored, and the custom stuff involved no rattle-can.

Treasures were found at the swap meet, and the wrecking yard, in old ladies garages... I could go on and on....

We DO have drop spindles now, and some cheap motor parts from China, but LORD, if you coulda seen the cars back in the day... garumph garumph....

Tue Aug 12, 2008 8:22 am

I agree the T3's days have passed. When they were new, they were "big" as the "next VW wave" but that never materialized. This initial enthusiasm left after ACVWs spiraled down in the face of safety and emissions requirements. T3 and T4 were too expensive if modified for latest regs, and the water cooled, front-engines era swept them off the showroom floor.

But for a while, you could still get a T3 pretty cheap, find new parts, drive it like a dated but reliable daily driver without being an expert or enthusiast. Independent shops abounded, and dealers still talked to you, ordered parts as needed.

Okay, so that was mainstream, not hobbyist as you are really asking. The hobbyists came in as the cars were going real cheap, due to the difficulty the "owners but not mechanics" had finding good service and parts. Lack of demand depressed prices.

Lately, ACVW prices have shot up. T3 parts go for twice what they did just several years ago. But I think this will fade as the owners fall into two camps.

The first will be those who wanted "a VW" and thought the T3 was a quirky member of the club. They will tire, and be upset as they sell it for far less than they invested.

The second group, probably most of those here, are with the T3 for good, and will keep them going, sourcing new parts (like ISP for popout rubber, and skilled tinkerers talking about MPS diaphragms), and keep them running until they die. The owners, that is. They were into T3s before the wave and will be after. They may not have restored them to factory newness, but they have been made reliable (often by undoing PO hacks) and are good daily drivers or weekend fun cars. They understand both what the T3 shared with the Bug, and also how it surpassed the Bug.

A long slow simmer is coming after the rolling boil.