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Wed Aug 13, 2008 12:58 pm

So I have searched and not found anything that matches my issue, and I completely realize you can't effectively diagnose a sound problem without being there...but hey, more heads thinking about a problem is better then just one!

Patient: 1969 Beetle, 1600 dual port. 009 distributor...

Last weekend I did my 3000 mile tune-up on the bug. I adjusted the valves, set the points, changed the oil, installed a 2.5qt oil sump and set the timing on the 009 using a timing light at 3500rpm. All my valves were within spec, no adjustment needed. Timing was way off (recently purchased) and I backed it down from 14deg static advance to 7deg static advance.

I have two issues, which may or may not be related:

Issue #1 - I get a strange ticking sound which sounds similar to the clicking you'd get from a CV joint, but is related to engine RPM. At first it sounded like hydraulic lifter clatter from my Audi, but the rate of clicking is MUCH slower then the RPM of the engine. It is, however, related to the rpm of the engine. It increases with engine speed, and decreases with engine speed. It cannot be heard at idle, but if I'm driving and hear it I can depress the clutch, release the accelerator and it goes away. The ticking noise is not constant...it comes and goes. If it does start, I've been successful at getting it to go away by putting the clutch in and blipping the throttle. I have been unsuccessful at getting the noise to begin while the car is parked and playing with the throttle at the carb. The car is always "running well" when the ticking occurs.

Issue #2 - Also somewhat intermittent, and seemingly separate from the ticking issue, is that the car will sputter and hesitate under acceleration at times. A gentle touch on the throttle will allow you to drive it fine, just don't push down too hard. The problem is somewhat intermittent. I drove the car for about ten min yesterday morning, had no issues with it. A buddy borrowed it mid-day, sputtered like a drowned cat. I grabbed the car an hour later, no problem at all. It would seem that it's mostly related to the car being cold, but I haven't confirmed it. I'm at the point where I think I simply need to a) double check the points and timing and then b) confirm that the carb (which I haven't touched) is set up correctly.

I only post about issue #2 in case it could be related to issue #1.

I was pretty careful about the 3000 mile service, but seeing as both issues have crept up after that, I definitely need to go back for a recheck.

Do either of these issues toss up any red-flags of obviousness to anyone?

-Dave

Wed Aug 13, 2008 2:38 pm

I had a ticking sound that turned out to be the cam. The rivits that held the gear to the shaft had stretched (I couldn't believe it didn't break) and caused the cam to run behind the gear. When the lobes would pass the high point, the valve springs would pop the cam forward making a tick sound. As you can imagine, this would also effect the timing. Turn the motor by hand to see if you can hear it. Good luck

Wed Aug 13, 2008 2:42 pm

I also once had a loose cam gear that did that to me. I got lucky and was able to tighten it up without taking the motor apart, by taking out the oil pump and hitting the rivets with a center punch/hammer, dimpling each in about a dozen spots and tightening it up again.

Try checking your valve adjustment with the engine hot. Wear some cloth gloves so you don't get burnt! I've had it where their adjustment is fine cold but one or two get really loose hot and cause such a ticking sound.

I've had it it where a connecting rod had a lot of side-play between it and the crankshaft that would cause such a noise

A broken ring might make a noise like that too, but you'd likely have other symptoms going along with that.

owdlvr wrote: Patient: 1969 Beetle, 1600 dual port. 009 distributor...

Issue #2 - \ is that the car will sputter and hesitate under acceleration at times. A gentle touch on the throttle will allow you to drive it fine, just don't push down too hardI only post about issue #2 in case it could be related to issue #1.

Not related. That reason is the 1600DP with the 009 distributor. You didn't say which carb but really, seldom to any of the single Solex carbs placed onto a dual port and used with an 009 distributor yields a good acceleration. Just a way of life with that. If it'a a German 34PICT-3 carb then the best distributor to use is the one that the factory mated it up with when it was new. Read this post for all the "whys" involved with that:

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=185095

-Andy

Wed Aug 13, 2008 2:58 pm

check your distributor drive shaft and make sure it has the spring the shaft will jump up and down and make a rod like sound if the spring isnt stiff enough to hold it down best way to tell is touch your distributor body with the engine idling and feel for the pulse...

Wed Aug 13, 2008 3:43 pm

Thanks guys, I will try to give each of these a shot...or at least, as much as I can in a hotel parking lot with my 'emergency' tool kit.

I know the 009 is definitely a problem, good to hear it's likely causing the sputtering. With luck, I'll find a SVDA distributor at our local VW show on Sunday...If the world is really smiling on me, I'll scoop up a vintage screamer kit...but I suspect I'll have better luck finding a split for $1500! haha

Anyways, thanks guys. Much appreciated. I'll check the distributor and the cam out as best I can.

-Dave

Wed Aug 13, 2008 7:18 pm

I guess she's about to throw a rod. Push in the clutch and the tick goes away? That would put thrust on a rod and silence the tick until it unloads on ya.... had that happen on an engine once.

I'm just bs'n ya. It aint' nothin but a thang ! I'd guess dist. also.

Wed Aug 13, 2008 7:30 pm

Exhaust leak

Wed Aug 13, 2008 7:37 pm

you say the ticking stops when you press the clutch and release the throttle. does it stop when you just press the clutch? could this be a clutch/pressureplate/tob prob? just something else thrown out. i did have a 64 bug that made some lite ticking sounds that ended up being the throwout bearing. the sound would stop if i pressed the clutch, but i could not make it tick in the driveway.

Wed Aug 13, 2008 9:47 pm

Take it to 6 grand and see what happens :D :D :D jk

Thu Aug 14, 2008 10:45 am

Quote: does it stop when you just press the clutch?

Nope. If the ticking starts I can depress the clutch (without letting go of the accel) and it will continue. Goes up and down with the revs too...so it's definitely engine and not tranny/driveline related.

lol. I'd take 'er to 6 grand to see what happens, but only if i had a freshly built motor to put in once I towed it home!

-Dave

Thu Aug 14, 2008 2:56 pm

fans' coming apart.

Sun Aug 17, 2008 12:29 am

i just had a fresh 1641 that had lifter bore issues, what oil weight and type did you put in with the oil change? silly question but did you install the longer oil pick up tube?

Thu Sep 11, 2008 6:54 am

If you hear it from inside the car and not the outside....... it might be your voltage regulator on it's way to death.

i had one do that same ticking sound your describing that goes with RPMs

take your back seat out and see if it gets louder

(((disregard if you have an alternator, as you will not have a voltage regulator!))) haha

Thu Sep 11, 2008 11:38 am

Ahh, three good ideas.

Not stoked to hear it could be the fan! Oil change was 10w30, long pickup tube was installed with the sump. Interesting thoughts on the voltage regulator...will prop the seat up for the ride home tonight.

Thanks!

-Dave

Thu Sep 11, 2008 12:32 pm

No Problemo!

Thu Sep 11, 2008 10:12 pm

owdlvr wrote: Thanks guys, I will try to give each of these a shot...or at least, as much as I can in a hotel parking lot with my 'emergency' tool kit.

I know the 009 is definitely a problem, good to hear it's likely causing the sputtering. With luck, I'll find a SVDA distributor at our local VW show on Sunday...If the world is really smiling on me, I'll scoop up a vintage screamer kit...but I suspect I'll have better luck finding a split for $1500! haha

Anyways, thanks guys. Much appreciated. I'll check the distributor and the cam out as best I can.

-Dave

I've also come across the stock cam gear creating this ticking sound in the late single-port motors, due to worn rivets.

Don't get carried away with blaming the 009...it seems to be open season on them, but I've used them in many applications including with stock carbs and they worked fine. If you find an OEM vacuum advance distributor, then grab it, but the 009 will work fine for now. My hunch is that you've got other tuning or fuel delivery issues...

Sun Sep 14, 2008 6:57 pm

Problem solved, at least in my vehicle ;)

In my car it's the Voltage regulator. It finally started again after a few weeks of no ticking. Pulled over, popped the lid and revved the engine. Couldn't hear anything but sweet flat-four, so I hopped back in. The ticking persisted, so I assumed it was under the seat. Turning on the headlights causes the ticking to stop immediately. So I think I can safely claim regulator.

New unit arrives tomorrow.

-Dave

Sun Sep 14, 2008 10:45 pm

owdlvr wrote: Problem solved, at least in my vehicle ;)

In my car it's the Voltage regulator. It finally started again after a few weeks of no ticking. Pulled over, popped the lid and revved the engine. Couldn't hear anything but sweet flat-four, so I hopped back in. The ticking persisted, so I assumed it was under the seat. Turning on the headlights causes the ticking to stop immediately. So I think I can safely claim regulator.

New unit arrives tomorrow.

-Dave

I RULE!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mon Sep 15, 2008 4:40 am

BTW, if your new one is an electroic style, it won't suffer from this in the future either. Just be sure to never let anything metal touch the "cover" of it when the engine is running, as it's "live" with unregulated generator output.