TheSamba.com :: View topic - a little help for a first time engine pull

Wed Aug 13, 2008 11:10 pm

I have very little knowledge about air cooled motors and have never pulled a motor by myself. I have the haynes manual and have already read every step. I am kinda worried that I'm going to run up on something that is not mentioned and/or mess something up.

here's some background:

it is a 76 westy, but has a 78 motor because of the hydraulic lifers

the we guy we bought it from said he bought a rebuilt motor, installed it and crunk it and then put it in storage for 4 or 5 years. whether or not that is true is only known by him! either way, without the motor in it we got a good deal.

we hooked a battery up just to see what would happen. the starter clicked, and nothing. we pulled the plugs and put oil in as told by some people on here, we tried pushing it off (in case the starter was bad), and I'm pretty sure another friend tried an air wrench. all to no avail. it won't turn over at all. Obviously it could be a LOT of things, but we are hoping that the starter is engaged with the flywheel and locked up.

we tried taking the starter off (before we got the haynes manual) and couldn't figure out what was going on with, or how to get to that pesky top bolt. The haynes manual attempts to explain it, but I don't understand it.

so we are going to pull the motor, because it will need to be done anyways to clean her out and make sure things are in order to go 6000 miles across country in a few years.

any tips, pointers, or help will be appreciated about things to look for when pulling the motor.

btw check out our myspace for it at http://www.myspace.com/hippiebus76

Wed Aug 13, 2008 11:41 pm

before we got the haynes manual<junk

throgh out that pos

bently is the one you want

get some trans(atf) fluid puor it in spark plug holes
let set 3 days put gear in 2nd rockbus with one hand back and forth
6 times

then close the engine door go to the side door open

and get in the bus sit down with your fav drink and when your done fire up the bbq have a party

have people get in and out of the van,,,

then after your hang over clears up the next day
rock the bus 6 times

engine should slowly free up\

dont force the engine to turn over just little nugges

Thu Aug 14, 2008 12:03 am

well, there won't be no hang over for me cause I don't drink, but I have contemplated doing something similar to that lol.

if we pull the motor, what are our options to get it free'd up enough to turn over if it still is persistent about not wanting to turn over? Obviously we won't have as much leverage to turn it over as we would in the bus w/ starter and/or rocking it in gear.

we need to pull it before the trip anyways, so would it be better to pull it now and look through it or get it running and then do it? and then there's the chance that it never runs and we're wasting our time lol...

looking for any and ALL opinions.

btw the haynes manual was free :)

Thu Aug 14, 2008 12:14 am

Go here for everything you need in terms of advice: http://www.ratwell.com The specific engine pull sequence is: http://www.ratwell.com/technical/EngineRemoval.html

Good luck!

Thu Aug 14, 2008 12:29 am

awesome, thank you! keep it coming ;)

Thu Aug 14, 2008 2:44 am

Get the Bentley manual. It's an absolute must have for anyone owning a bus. Don't get a Muir. Keep the Haynes. It does have some good info. But with the engine problems get the Tom Wilson engine rebuild book. It has good info about evaluating an old engine. There are things that can't be done once it out and torn down.

Thu Aug 14, 2008 3:18 am

Compared to the two Bentley manuals I have for my '56 & '65 Beetle, the Bentley for the '68-'79 Type 2 sucks. You can get by fine with just the Haynes manual and it's cheap. Although, the FI section in the Bentley invaluable.

Thu Aug 14, 2008 3:31 am

For a '71 it's the best manual there is. Maybe it just sucks for '72-'79 info.

Thu Aug 14, 2008 4:05 am

Actually, yes, the Wilson book is a great one too.... http://www.amazon.com/Rebuild-Volkswagen-air-Cooled-Engine-models/dp/0895862255

Also, the Bug-Me video series has a three hour DVD of a pancake engine teardown and inspection, with the renowned Jake Raby.... http://www.bugmevideo.com/ Look for Volume 8, Type 4 Rebuild

Keep the Hayes, get the Bentley, get the Idiot's guide, too... print out the ratwell.com walkthrough... better to have too much info than too little! Plus there may be different approaches or ways of thinking about something that is explained in a way you understand better in one or the others...

Thu Aug 14, 2008 7:42 am

Desertbusman wrote: For a '71 it's the best manual there is. Maybe it just sucks for '72-'79 info.

OK, maybe 'sucks' is a bit harsh, but really, it's nowhere near as good as my other two Bentleys.

Traveling Writer wrote: the Wilson book is a great one too...

I agree.

Traveling Writer wrote: Keep the Hayes, get the Bentley, get the Idiot's guide, too... print out the ratwell.com walkthrough... better to have too much info than too little! Plus there may be different approaches or ways of thinking about something that is explained in a way you understand better in one or the others...

Well said.

Thu Aug 14, 2008 8:03 am

Suggestion....

When I first got my bus I printed up various interesting articles from various websites (most notably ratwells website) and put them in a 8.5" x 11" 3 ring binder and wrote handy little tips of my own on those pages (like how the coil is wired up correctly)......

"pulling the engine rap"
"demystifying the double relay rap"
"how to time the Mallory Unilite"
"The L-tronic manual"
"the vaccum line set rap"
"the fuel line replacement set up"

and stuff like that which would all be handy if I were stuck someplace and either I or a real machanic could help figure out what is not working correctly and how to get me back on the road. I carry the Bentely, Muir, Wilson, and Probst Bosch FI manual with me as well of course.

Thu Aug 14, 2008 10:56 am

Don't be scared, I was scared and all I needed was a few wrenches, a Bentley and a $39.00 hydraulic atc/ motorcycle jack. I got it out myself and a friend helped me get it back in. Now I would feel comfortable installing it myself. It was pretty easy, though mine is a 71 I'm not sure the difference with your year. Cheers

Thu Aug 14, 2008 12:43 pm

thanks guys. Here's my dilemma about buying all of those books lol. I am BROKE. I got the Haynes (and now the ratwell) for free.

You might think... if your broke, you don't need to be doing this etc. etc. but we have plenty of time to raise funds and I just want to find out what is wrong with it to make a budget. we are trying to get people to sign up for a "freebie" site as one of our referrals to get some cash to do some simple things. Technically I "could" afford another book, but I wouldn't have gas to get to and from school in Raleigh (3 hours a way). a year ago I had a job where I could afford to do whatever, but I just started another one and it is tough right now. I'm wanting to do something like pull the motor because I want to mess with her, but don't have the money to get anything else major accomplished.

btw opinions would be appreciated on what we need to do with teh cabinets. the laminate is peeling off of some pieces and we have debated on a few things. our options are:

try find cabinets that look better

strip and relaminate

strip and paint (what color?)

sell and build our own ( my friend makes cabinets for a living.

anyways, I'm about to go jump on this thing and see If I can't get her atleast started to come out. Going to go print the the ratwells thing off and head out.... so pray for me lol! peace!

Thu Aug 14, 2008 4:10 pm

hippiebus76 wrote: I'm wanting to do something like pull the motor because I want to mess with her,

That's the buzzword. We're trying to help you avoid a real mess. You gotta' know what your doing otherwise it will cost you a whole bunch more than just the cost of a couple manuals. Plus howerer bad it is now, it could easily end up a lot worse. Wasn't your goal to get it in order?

Thu Aug 14, 2008 4:30 pm

I too am not at a point I can spend money on my bus, but with the help of the good folks on the samba you can do a LOT with little or no money. :wink:

Thu Aug 14, 2008 4:41 pm

hippiebus76 wrote:

btw opinions would be appreciated on what we need to do with teh cabinets. the laminate is peeling off of some pieces and we have debated on a few things. our options are:

try find cabinets that look better

strip and relaminate

strip and paint (what color?)

sell and build our own ( my friend makes cabinets for a living.

Look at her cabinets here:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3...p;start=80

Thu Aug 14, 2008 5:11 pm

mackmix wrote: hippiebus76 wrote:

btw opinions would be appreciated on what we need to do with teh cabinets. the laminate is peeling off of some pieces and we have debated on a few things. our options are:

try find cabinets that look better

strip and relaminate

strip and paint (what color?)

sell and build our own ( my friend makes cabinets for a living.

Yikes! :shock: I'm blinded.

Look at her cabinets here:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3...p;start=80

Thu Aug 14, 2008 5:32 pm

Quote: You might think... if your broke, you don't need to be doing this etc. etc. but we have plenty of time to raise funds and I just want to find out what is wrong with it to make a budget. we are trying to get people to sign up for a "freebie" site as one of our referrals to get some cash to do some simple things. Technically I "could" afford another book, but I wouldn't have gas to get to and from school in Raleigh (3 hours a way). a year ago I had a job where I could afford to do whatever, but I just started another one and it is tough right now. I'm wanting to do something like pull the motor because I want to mess with her, but don't have the money to get anything else major accomplished.

I probably have an extra Bently laying around. PM me and I can send it to you for FREE. Ive tried giving it away before, but no-one ever responds. (this is not an open invitation for others to PM me about the book, sorry) It may be a couple weeks before I get back up to my shop, but I can send it to you the next time I go up there.

Also, I have learned everything I know about buses and mechanics in general by trial and error. People always ask me "how do you know how to work on cars?" Well, the answer is, Im not afraid to try and make mistakes. After all, this is how we learn. Go pull your engine and when you run into problems, because you will, ask us. Thats what we're here for.

Thu Aug 14, 2008 6:38 pm

I don't understand the love of the Bentley, I guess that people who spend that much money on a confusing book just have to preach about it. I lived with a Haynes for twenty years now and keep one in my Bay and 411 on all trips. The Bentley sits inside near the computer with its pages clean because it is better at solving Samba disputes than fixing engines.

Who want to read page after page of "on single carburated engines do this and on double carburated engines do that and on fuel injected engine forget everything and go back two steps.

Thu Aug 14, 2008 6:51 pm

start by screwing off the tin, it will get in your way. make shure you label where everything goes! get ready for a step up on the learning curve. gl!