TheSamba.com :: View topic - Notes From The Doghouse (Doghouse Engine In A Split Bus)

Fri Aug 15, 2008 11:14 am

Yesterday the rebuilt longblock, fully equipped with doghouse oil cooler, went into my '64 Sundial Camper. Here are problems encountered:

1) Main Problem: While the '64 stock engine is held in by four 17 mm nuts, two on bolts at the top of the bell housing and two on studs at the bottom, because of clearance problems, the crankcase of a doghouse oil cooler equipped engine has a pressed-in permanent nut on the upper left. This means that tightening or loosening this connection involves turning the bolt head in front of the bell housing instead of turning the nut at the rear. Since the bolt head is directly behind the clutch lever arm, getting a socket drive on it is well-nigh impossible. Getting a box-end or open-end wrench on it is frustrating, too, and you can't make the necessary minimum 1/12 of a turn with the wrench because of interference with the exit ducting from the oil cooler poking through the firewall tin. An extra-short wrench is needed to get a longer turning arc. NAPA sells a set of stubby combination wrenches for about $23.00, but I'm trying for a cheaper solution. I don't remember any of these problems installing a doghouse-equipped engine in my '72 Karmann Ghia, though I don't imagine the relative positions of any of these critical parts is any different there.

2) If your firewall tin has two holes for passing the fuel line, choose the bottom one, otherwise the fuel line will run into the firewall tin seal. (Pick up one of those tubular threaded studs with the flat nuts in the lamp department of your hardware store. Put it through your firewall tin and pass the fuel line through it. This will keep the sharp-edged tin from wearing a hole in the fuel line.)

Fri Aug 15, 2008 11:23 am

In the past, I've replaced top-left bolt with an allen-head bolt.

Fri Aug 15, 2008 11:29 am

The solution is to put a washer under the head of the 17mm 10x70 bolt. This makes it possible to get a socket [with extensions etc ] on the head as it makes it stick out enough from the recess to grab. If you have the early curved throwout arm changing to the later straight arm is also helpfull. If you come across one installed a 14x17 motorcycle wrench [jap style] will get it off but it wont be fun. If its an early curved arm have someone hold the clutch down as this gives added clearance. Later model IRS trannys dont have as much recess under the bolt head and a straight T/O arm making it much easier to remove.

Fri Aug 15, 2008 4:41 pm

Over the years, I've never had much of a problem removing the bolt and re-installing it. I use a three-eighths inch rachet with a long extension and socket on it. I hold the extension in place with fingers on my right hand and turn the rachet's arm a little at a time. The only tricky part is getting the socket on the head of the bolt. It helps to have a long right arm.

Fri Aug 15, 2008 4:45 pm

thom wrote: In the past, I've replaced top-left bolt with an allen-head bolt.
Works for me.

Fri Aug 15, 2008 4:49 pm

You have to be carefull with this, because if you have a pre-71 trans there is no way to drive the bolt in all the way and what will also happen is that the head of the bolt can be driven far enough into the recess of the bell housing to make getting it out a PITA. Using an allemn headed bolt is the only way to do it right or use a '71 up trans but that is a whole nother kettle of fish.
--Dan

futhark wrote: Yesterday the rebuilt longblock, fully equipped with doghouse oil cooler, went into my '64 Sundial Camper. Here are problems encountered:

1) Main Problem: While the '64 stock engine is held in by four 17 mm nuts, two on bolts at the top of the bell housing and two on studs at the bottom, because of clearance problems, the crankcase of a doghouse oil cooler equipped engine has a pressed-in permanent nut on the upper left. This means that tightening or loosening this connection involves turning the bolt head in front of the bell housing instead of turning the nut at the rear. Since the bolt head is directly behind the clutch lever arm, getting a socket drive on it is well-nigh impossible. Getting a box-end or open-end wrench on it is frustrating, too, and you can't make the necessary minimum 1/12 of a turn with the wrench because of interference with the exit ducting from the oil cooler poking through the firewall tin. An extra-short wrench is needed to get a longer turning arc. NAPA sells a set of stubby combination wrenches for about $23.00, but I'm trying for a cheaper solution. I don't remember any of these problems installing a doghouse-equipped engine in my '72 Karmann Ghia, though I don't imagine the relative positions of any of these critical parts is any different there.

2) If your firewall tin has two holes for passing the fuel line, choose the bottom one, otherwise the fuel line will run into the firewall tin seal. (Pick up one of those tubular threaded studs with the flat nuts in the lamp department of your hardware store. Put it through your firewall tin and pass the fuel line through it. This will keep the sharp-edged tin from wearing a hole in the fuel line.)

Fri Aug 15, 2008 4:58 pm

I gave up and just put mine in finger tight because I'm lazy. 3 bolts will hold 'er just fine!

The allen head bolt is a good idea. I was thinking about trying one of these:

Whaddya think?

Fri Aug 15, 2008 5:03 pm

I believe I have the same issue, 1600Dp engine in my 1960 SC. I am a novice and never removed an engine before. Last year I got everything disconnected and down to the last 4 bolts when trying to get at that top nut behind the clutch made me come to a standstill. Other projects then took over and the SC has sat since, although now dry in my shop.

One day I will give it a better go. I purchased a real long 3/8 extension bar and at about a 45 degree angle, could just get my socket on that nut. It kept slipping off thou. I never got a good crack at it. I then sprayed some PB blaster on it and since then, never tried again as I started working on my Thing.

I wonder, although they may be a gimmick, those special sockets that latch onto anything and supposed to get a sure grip, if that would help. Probably not but I thought about getting one of those and maybe it can grip the nut better and I can get a good crack at it.

tj

Fri Aug 15, 2008 5:04 pm

Glenn wrote: thom wrote: In the past, I've replaced top-left bolt with an allen-head bolt.
Works for me.

Same here. In a pinch I have drilled the threads out of a 17mm headed nut to use as a spacer under a standard hex head bolt.

Fri Aug 15, 2008 7:01 pm

I haven't had to use the allen head bolt trick yet, but I will next time. Right now I have a bolt with a 15MM head on it, and that gives enough clearance for the socket/universal joint/long extension trick. When it comes to getting the bolt out (amishman's problem) some times its just easier to remove the left side heater box and tube to body. This will give just a little more room to work. I also like to replace the curved clutch arm with the straight arm when I can.

Sat Aug 16, 2008 10:00 am

The Allen-headed bolt intrigues me. I wonder if anyone knows the length and thread size, so I don't have to make a special trip under my bus to pull out the original. Also, does anyone recall where they obtained such a bolt?

Sat Aug 16, 2008 5:55 pm

cdennisg wrote: I haven't had to use the allen head bolt trick yet, but I will next time. Right now I have a bolt with a 15MM head on it, and that gives enough clearance for the socket/universal joint/long extension trick. When it comes to getting the bolt out (amishman's problem) some times its just easier to remove the left side heater box and tube to body. This will give just a little more room to work. I also like to replace the curved clutch arm with the straight arm when I can.

This doesn't cause any alignment issues?

Sat Aug 16, 2008 9:56 pm

Is there anyone else who hasn't had much trouble removing the bolt, over the years, like me? I must be living a blessed life. It does help to not be built like Mr. T.:lol:

Sat Aug 16, 2008 10:33 pm

Culito wrote: cdennisg wrote: I haven't had to use the allen head bolt trick yet, but I will next time. Right now I have a bolt with a 15MM head on it, and that gives enough clearance for the socket/universal joint/long extension trick. When it comes to getting the bolt out (amishman's problem) some times its just easier to remove the left side heater box and tube to body. This will give just a little more room to work. I also like to replace the curved clutch arm with the straight arm when I can.

This doesn't cause any alignment issues?

So far so good. I have used the straight arm at least 5 times on trannies designed for the curved arm. The first time was my first bug, a 67 euro standard. That one my mechanic swapped and he told me about it. I have been doing it ever since. I work on my own stuff now, though.

Sun Aug 17, 2008 4:07 am

if you remove the curved arm and hammer it flat it will be 1/4" longer than normal straight arm. it will change the ratio and be easier to push down the pedal and will help clutch cable last longer due to less stress.

Sun Aug 17, 2008 7:30 am

I see that California Import Parts sells a "Forged Clutch Cable Release Arm" (VWC-131-141-719-HD) for BEETLE/GHIA 61-71 - BUS 61-75 and it is straight. I wish now I had known about this problem earlier when the engine was out! Then I might have replaced the curved arm with a straight one. However, I do remember that replacing the spring that goes on the clutch cable release arm was terribly difficult, which gives me pause before proceeding in that direction.

Sun Aug 17, 2008 10:16 am

bill may wrote: if you remove the curved arm and hammer it flat it will be 1/4" longer than normal straight arm. it will change the ratio and be easier to push down the pedal and will help clutch cable last longer due to less stress.

If that does not cause any undo stress to the arm that would cause t fail, I'm all for it. Any consideration of that? Ever have any problems with them after you unbend them?

The straight arms aren't always easy to find, but I would gladly modify all the curved arms on my vehicles in the future.

Sun Aug 17, 2008 11:42 am

Here ya go:

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=473781

New longer straight arms. I'm gettin' one.

Sun Aug 17, 2008 2:04 pm

The continuing saga of installing an engine with doghouse oil cooler in a '64 bus -- The upper left engine mounting bolt has been tightened! The extreme measure taken was the removal of both the upper and lower hot air exhaust ducts from the doghouse oil cooler by reaching around the front of the engine and removing their mounting screws with a stubby screwdriver. Being left-handed, which I am not, would make this whole operation a lot easier. With the lower hot air exhaust duct pulled back through the firewall tin and using alternately the box end and open end of the 17 mm combination wrench, I was able to turn and exert sufficient torque on the bolt head. The ironic thing here is that once the two hot air exhaust ducts are removed, it would be a simple thing to tightened a nut on the mounting bolt, same as on the pre-doghouse engines!

Getting the screw holding the lower hot air exhaust duct back in place proved to be the female of the canine species, but was eventually persuaded into position by the weight of a small (2 ton) bottle jack pushing it down and a bit of 3/4" iron pipe wedged between the duct and the wheel well brace pushing it to the right, all observed with a small inspection mirror and trouble light. The upper hot air exhaust duct went on without any difficulty at all, unbelievable as it may sound.

If VW had designed the lower exhaust duct to go on as easily as the top duct, there would have been no necessity of changing over from nut-tightening to bolt tightening, and the the conversion of non-doghouse to doghouse oil coolers would have been greatly simplified.

Sun Aug 17, 2008 6:17 pm

Oh oh. Good reading, this thread, but I just realised that I may have trouble if/when I try to take the motor out of my Splitty ('67).

When I got it, the doghouse tin was missing, but it was a doghouse fanshroud (motor's not at all stock :? ). Not being impressed with the concept of recirculating (hot) cooling air, I put those few bits in with the motor in place. That took a fair bit of stuffing around, but I got the tin and seals in place, eventually.

Now I wonder how I will go when I try to drop it. Perhaps the reason that that tin was missing is due to exactly the discussion topic of this thread.

Ah well, cheers, A.