TheSamba.com :: View topic - 1700 Dual Port Pancake Style Porsche motor?

Sat Aug 16, 2008 12:42 pm

Picking up my '73 bus today!!! WOOHOO!! I do have questions about the motor in it though.. it is a 1700 Dual Port Pancake Style Motor.. Is this the stock motor? Porsche? Good? Bad? Benefits? Drawbacks? Any info will be greatly appreciated! Will post some pictures when I get it home... Secondly.. what is the difference between regular campers and westi's? Last, is the a reason some camper tops crank straight up, and others are on angles? I am a newbie to campers and bus's in general so I am sure I will have many more questions... thanks.

Sat Aug 16, 2008 12:58 pm

72 and up USA buses come stock with the 411/412 type 4 engine that Porsche also used in the 914. It is a VW engine.

Sorry to burst your bubble but I hope you did not buy it because you were told it is a Porsche engine......

Sat Aug 16, 2008 1:15 pm

Oh not at all.. I am actually trading my '73 Thing for it due to it being in such great shape and 95% original. So that is the original engine style engine then? Cool. And.. I already found some info on the Westi by searching on here.. probably should have done that first. Thanks for the info.

Sat Aug 16, 2008 1:15 pm

Hoo boy..

OK. Check the engine code on the top of the case, just under and behind the crankcase breather. (Its an approx. 2.5x4 box with about a 1" hose coming out of it) in the rear of the engine, and almost in the center of the engine compartment.
CD and CB are "pancake" 1.7L TypeIV engines installed stock in buses, probably with dual carbs. (except in EU/UK.) If this IS a 1.7L, it's more than probably one of those. Some uninformed people will say that they have a "Porsche-Style" engine when it's really just the stock "pancake" or TypeIV engine that VW used in buses after 1971. It's more likely just a TypeIV, as opposed to an upright 1600 or other Type1, than an actual Porsche engine. It COULD be a TypeIV, (variant) engine, which would be W, EA, or EB engine code, and I don't know whether they used FI or carbs on those.

The Porsche 1.7L, if you have one, would have been from a 1970-1973, should have D-Jetronic Fuel Injection, and be an EA or an EB case. If it's an unmolested EA, with 8.2:1 compression, or an EB, with 7.3:1 compression, unless it's been modified, which could have included swapping the D-Jet FI out for dual carbs. A few things, like the mounts, would have been modified if this is really a Porsche engine.

A Westy is a camper outfitted under license for VW by the Westfalia company. There are a LOT of different types of campers, some that lift in the front, some that lift in the back, some that lift straight up, some with little lift up tops too, variants on the Riviera design.

So I'm surprised you don't know more than this, having been here since January, cause all you have to do is....... wait for it...........SEARCH.

There is so much information on this site about buses and the variations that it will make your head spin. so get searching, and get reading. Start with Westfalia, Riviera, Camper AND Style, etc. etc.. I'm tired now... :lol: . maybe somebody else can point you to the links with all the different stock engines, and the camper types.

good luck. congratulations. happy searching.

All the credit for that pile belongs to Mr. Tom Wilson, but I proved I'm not illiterate.

Sat Aug 16, 2008 1:52 pm

The Type 4 VW engine, aka a Porsche engine, has lots more HP than a bug T1 engine and can if well built last many times longer. The negative is that it cost significantly more to rebuild, and many T1 purest don't care to understand it.

Sat Aug 16, 2008 8:14 pm

so you are saying a type 1 engine cannot go 150k-200k without shitting the bed?? I beg to differ

Sat Aug 16, 2008 8:43 pm

baywndwjunkie wrote: so you are saying a type 1 engine cannot go 150k-200k without shitting the bed?? I beg to differ

Yes...then that would mean the T-4 would last even longer. The majority of T-1's Iv'e come across have already spilled the beans by those numbers.

Sat Aug 16, 2008 11:45 pm

baywndwjunkie wrote: so you are saying a type 1 engine cannot go 150k-200k without shitting the bed?? I beg to differ

I am not saying they can't, but I will say that I have never personally seen one that has. I have seen a few T4's that broke the 300K mark.

Sun Aug 17, 2008 7:39 am

Lets see some Pictures!!! I love the early 1.7's with the dual carbs and the smog pump.

only 95k wow!

:lol: there are a couple of guys here that rebuild those Solexes correctly as buy 100k the throttle shafts have ovaled out the carb body aluminum.

Sun Aug 17, 2008 7:53 am

8) The '72 1700 Type 4 engine, please don't call it a pancake, is arguably the most reliable and longest lasting air cooled engine VW ever produced. Welcome to the club!

Sun Aug 17, 2008 8:03 am

Yes - the Type IV CAN last more than 100k miles....

My 78 Westy came with a 2.0L GEX that was installed in 1992 - and it lasted until 2004 before it needed an engine rebuild - putting on an amazing 200k miles (engine replaced at 189k miles. I have the documentation to prove it. :lol:

Bus is currently at 417k - and I believe engine No.4.

Sun Aug 17, 2008 8:50 am

yes i to have a 1973 bus with a 1.7 motor installed it realy runs great. keep those buses rockin.. whats up busman and wildthings.........you guys rock.......

Sun Aug 17, 2008 9:09 am

What in the heck is wrong with calling a pancake engine in a van a pancake engine. People know what you are talking about when you do so, most people only give you a blank stare when you call one a Type 4.

Sun Aug 17, 2008 9:12 am

Hi WT, It's because long time VWers associate the term "pancake" with the type 3 engine in type 3's. A totally different animal.

Sun Aug 17, 2008 4:03 pm

GusC2it wrote: 8) The '72 1700 Type 4 engine, please don't call it a pancake, is arguably the most reliable and longest lasting air cooled engine VW ever produced. Welcome to the club!

Except of course the TypeIV heads are crap.

Sun Aug 17, 2008 4:16 pm

Many many years ago...... I heard the type 3 was called a pancake and the type 4 [411/412] was called a suitcase engine. But I have not heard the suitcase term used in 30+ years.....

Sun Aug 17, 2008 5:46 pm

Hi Karl!
You and I both go back aways. I remember that term too, but forgot it. :roll:

Sun Sep 28, 2014 6:53 am

(1.7L EA engine code Porsche) VS (2.0L CV engine code vw.) which would you want in your 81 vanagon.
the 1.7L has bin rebuilt by wagon works in N.H. it has lighten fly wheel, balanced crank and cam, heavy rods, beaded and polished heads. 2200 in parts and machining years ago. that is all i know about the motor at the moment.
the 2.0 CV engine code i took out of the vanagon is waiting for a decent case and me to rebuild it.
the big question is how do i figure out how much HP the 1.7L has mind you it was built for a 914 track car and never installed. or is it worth the power loss for the bullet proof EA motor..

Sun Sep 28, 2014 7:09 am

If the engine was built for a track car, the cam would certainly not provide enough torque for a heavy Vanagon. The oil filler on the EA case is also not codusive for a bus as it is in an akward position.You would be better off with a 2.0 with the correct cam. BTW, this is not the Vanagon forum, maybe better to post there.

Sun Sep 28, 2014 7:10 am

Power and durability are different things.

The 914 engine was designed to power a pretty aerodynamic lightweight car at high speeds at 5600 RPMs all day.

A Type 4 bus/vanagon engine is designed to power a big heavy box down the road and up hills while generating gobs of head in the heads.

I would rebuild the CV engine you have with a improved type 4 valve train (heads and camshaft) and I would likely get them from the Type 4 store. I would keep the standard displacement of 1971cc to keep it cooled correctly.