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Thu Aug 21, 2008 10:16 am

Hey all,

My dad needs to order head gaskets and intake gaskets for his Vanagon.

Yeah, I said Vanagon, but wait a second.

He has the round intake ports (not square ones) so I think that means he's running Bay Window era heads. Hey have hydraulic lifers, so we're talking a '79 model...right?

His motor is a 2.0 liter air cooled, but its a block off an '81 model vanagon.

Further, he's running two separate carbs.

I know about the technical bulletin, but he wants to order the upper shims that go between the head and the cylinder.

So, what does he order? The last carburated bus was in 1974 but it had a 1.7 liter engine, so will the intake manifold gaskets from a '74 fit a '79 era head for a 2 liter engine? If they are different, what do you specify?

If he specifies the rebuild gasket kit for a '79 bus, will that have all the right gaskets and shims?

Extra Credit: What is the thickness of the upper shims (cylinder to head) in the rebuild kits?

He is planning on only redoing one side of the motor because the other side is perfect in every way we can find and he doesn't want to touch it. So do people sell gasket kits for just one side?

Last point: FYI, we think we've located a source for the correct shims that will go between the cylinder and the block...I don't think we need them...and yes...we calculated the thickness correctly.

Thanks for any and all help. Especially thanks for any parts numbers or recommendations on vendors, p-mail or otherwise.

Steve

Thu Aug 21, 2008 11:30 am

VW has a recommended NOT using the head to cylinders gaskets as they tend to blow out.

We lap the cylinders to the heads now using valve lapping compound. Both sides need to have the same deck ht and compression!!! The heads need to be CC'd to set the deck ht too.

Shims under the cylinders set the deck ht which then sets the CR.

Thu Aug 21, 2008 11:52 am

All T4 heads have round intake ports. The 'Vanagon' head has the squarish exhaust ports. Turn the head over and check again.

Don't use the gaskets. If doing just one side and there were gaskets when you took it apart, the base shim you need should be the same thickness as the gaskets that came out. IIRC .045 to .050 thick.

Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:53 pm

melville wrote: All T4 heads have round intake ports. The 'Vanagon' head has the squarish exhaust ports. Turn the head over and check again.

Don't use the gaskets. If doing just one side and there were gaskets when you took it apart, the base shim you need should be the same thickness as the gaskets that came out. IIRC .045 to .050 thick.

Thanks for setting me straight there...this is why I try not to rely on my memory too much. My wife may be correct when she tells me that she already told me to take out the garbage. Hmmph.

So all the T4 heads have found intake ports...including those set up for fuel injection? If so, this becomes pretty simple..we just need to order a gasket kit for the heads on any year air cooled Vanagon. Right?

I know we shouldn't use gaskets between the head and the jugs, but since we're only doing one side, and it is already set up with gaskets, we're going to run them on both sides under a lower compression. Interestingly, it brings up a question as to what motivated the removal of the gasket itself (circa 1987 technical bulletin)? Is it possilbe it had more to do with water cooled engines? Did they have higher compression ratios, and/or complications with water routing necessitating the change? (Never saw the head on a water cooled vanagon). Thoughts?

OK, point of clarification. You're saying you think you recall the gaskets in the rebuild kit are 0.045-in or so. Is that for EACH upper and lower gasket/shim or both combined?

Thanks to all.

Steve

Thu Aug 21, 2008 2:49 pm

Quote: Interestingly, it brings up a question as to what motivated the removal of the gasket itself (circa 1987 technical bulletin)? Is it possilbe it had more to do with water cooled engines? Did they have higher compression ratios, and/or complications with water routing necessitating the change? (Never saw the head on a water cooled vanagon). Thoughts?

This is why

Because they fail and you have to tear the engine down again. This has NOTHING to do with watercooled engines. It only applies to these engines. These are the only engines that use these gaskets. The watercooled engines are completely different.

Thu Aug 21, 2008 3:08 pm

Westy Steve wrote: melville wrote: All T4 heads have round intake ports. The 'Vanagon' head has the squarish exhaust ports. Turn the head over and check again.

Don't use the gaskets. If doing just one side and there were gaskets when you took it apart, the base shim you need should be the same thickness as the gaskets that came out. IIRC .045 to .050 thick.

Thanks for setting me straight there...this is why I try not to rely on my memory too much. My wife may be correct when she tells me that she already told me to take out the garbage. Hmmph.

So all the T4 heads have found intake ports...including those set up for fuel injection? If so, this becomes pretty simple..we just need to order a gasket kit for the heads on any year air cooled Vanagon. Right?

I know we shouldn't use gaskets between the head and the jugs, but since we're only doing one side, and it is already set up with gaskets, we're going to run them on both sides under a lower compression. Interestingly, it brings up a question as to what motivated the removal of the gasket itself (circa 1987 technical bulletin)? Is it possilbe it had more to do with water cooled engines? Did they have higher compression ratios, and/or complications with water routing necessitating the change? (Never saw the head on a water cooled vanagon). Thoughts?

OK, point of clarification. You're saying you think you recall the gaskets in the rebuild kit are 0.045-in or so. Is that for EACH upper and lower gasket/shim or both combined?

Thanks to all.

Steve

When you take it apart you MAY find a head gasket AND/OR a base shim. If it's a base shim only, just reuse it. If it's a gasket only, get base shims the same thickness. If it's a gasket AND a shim, either get a shim the same thickness as the gasket and ADD it to the existing shim, or get a shim the same thickness as the gasket and shim together and use it by itself. If you find nothing, put it back together with nothing! A base shim may be hiding under a bunch of sealant and grime and not be readily evident as such.

The goal here is to keep your compression ratio the same as it was before, and hopefully the same as the side you aren't opening up.

The VW directive had nothing to do with water-cooled engines.

Good luck!

Thu Aug 21, 2008 4:21 pm

josh wrote: Quote: Interestingly, it brings up a question as to what motivated the removal of the gasket itself (circa 1987 technical bulletin)? Is it possilbe it had more to do with water cooled engines? Did they have higher compression ratios, and/or complications with water routing necessitating the change? (Never saw the head on a water cooled vanagon). Thoughts?

This is why

Because they fail and you have to tear the engine down again. This has NOTHING to do with watercooled engines. It only applies to these engines. These are the only engines that use these gaskets. The watercooled engines are completely different.

Is that a paper or metal gasket? I'm referring to metal ones. We did see fatigue on the metal one we took off, but the engine was running at 150 to 160 PSI!

Steve

Thu Aug 21, 2008 5:09 pm

Aluminum

Thu Aug 21, 2008 7:40 pm

melville wrote: Westy Steve wrote: melville wrote: All T4 heads have round intake ports. The 'Vanagon' head has the squarish exhaust ports. Turn the head over and check again.

Don't use the gaskets. If doing just one side and there were gaskets when you took it apart, the base shim you need should be the same thickness as the gaskets that came out. IIRC .045 to .050 thick.

Thanks for setting me straight there...this is why I try not to rely on my memory too much. My wife may be correct when she tells me that she already told me to take out the garbage. Hmmph.

So all the T4 heads have found intake ports...including those set up for fuel injection? If so, this becomes pretty simple..we just need to order a gasket kit for the heads on any year air cooled Vanagon. Right?

I know we shouldn't use gaskets between the head and the jugs, but since we're only doing one side, and it is already set up with gaskets, we're going to run them on both sides under a lower compression. Interestingly, it brings up a question as to what motivated the removal of the gasket itself (circa 1987 technical bulletin)? Is it possilbe it had more to do with water cooled engines? Did they have higher compression ratios, and/or complications with water routing necessitating the change? (Never saw the head on a water cooled vanagon). Thoughts?

OK, point of clarification. You're saying you think you recall the gaskets in the rebuild kit are 0.045-in or so. Is that for EACH upper and lower gasket/shim or both combined?

Thanks to all.

Steve

When you take it apart you MAY find a head gasket AND/OR a base shim. If it's a base shim only, just reuse it. If it's a gasket only, get base shims the same thickness. If it's a gasket AND a shim, either get a shim the same thickness as the gasket and ADD it to the existing shim, or get a shim the same thickness as the gasket and shim together and use it by itself. If you find nothing, put it back together with nothing! A base shim may be hiding under a bunch of sealant and grime and not be readily evident as such.

The goal here is to keep your compression ratio the same as it was before, and hopefully the same as the side you aren't opening up.

The VW directive had nothing to do with water-cooled engines.

Good luck!

Thanks for the idea. Ultimately, we're going to put the shim back in, and if it fails as Josh shows, we'll take the heads off and machine it. I can see that the upper shims failure is a function of compression ratio and shim thickness. A thin upper shim and a high compression ratio would be a bad combination. Our upper shim is relatively thick because the lower is relatively thin so if we keep the compression ratio down, we're hoping for the best. If not...well...live and learn.

Steve