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  View original topic: Stubborn drum brakes
jdbs3 Fri Aug 22, 2008 4:16 pm

Vanagon 1990 GL

Looks like my left rear wheel bearings need replacement. You can hear the grinding on and off when turning the drum with the wheel off.

However, the drum refuses to come off. Tried using a rubber and wood mallet on the drum, as well as a small bit of WD40 around the center yoke and then knocking gently around this also. No luck!

Anyone know of any other tricks for removing the drum short of applying heat that may warp the drum?

Also, while I am in there, what else makes sense to do? Obviously I'll check the wear on the brake pads. They were last replaced 20,000 miles ago.

But is it worth replacing the springs and wheel cylinder just as preventive maintenance since I am in there, or just replace what is obviously worn?

I'll be working on this tomorrow with the assistance of a few folks more knowledgeable than me.

Thanks

floggingmolly Fri Aug 22, 2008 4:55 pm

Couple of things, I had this problem too. Did you remove the two little bolts that hold the drum on? They are staring at you right in the face, I think they're 10 or 11 mm bolts. If they are removed and you still can't get it off, it may be because your emergency/parking brake is on. No banging in the world will get it off if the brake is on.

90Doka_Guy Fri Aug 22, 2008 4:58 pm

jdbs3 wrote: Anyone know of any other tricks for removing the drum short of applying heat that may warp the drum?

Release the parking brake. :lol:

Seriously though, i just shoot some penetrating oil where i can so that it can soak onto the mating surface between the drum and the hub. Then i just beat it with a ball peen hammer until it breaks loose. I am not sure a rubber or wooden mallet would be able to give it a good enough shock.

Dogpilot Fri Aug 22, 2008 5:11 pm

Violence!

Get new drums, you will not regret it.

Famous 01 Fri Aug 22, 2008 5:23 pm

If the drums are old the brake shoes will wear a groove in them leaving a ridge on the inside of the drum that won't allow the drum to come off over the shoe. Try adjusting the shoe smaller through the hole on the inside of the brake mechanism (sorry I can't recall which way to move the adjuster wheel).

If you make the shoes smaller, the drums will usually come off.

There is also a small hole on the pheriferey (sp?) of the inside backing plate. You can use a punch or small bolt through that hold to hammer on the drum. Sometimes that helps.
-Kent

Dogpilot Fri Aug 22, 2008 5:33 pm

I kind of jest here, but yes making the shoes come in by backing off the adjustment will help overcome the lip issue. If you have a lip, the drums are due to be replaced. The system really does not self adjust well and it will brake about 100% better with new shoes and drums. My original drums just didn't want to come off without significant violence, even after a bath in many magic elixirs, Kroil, LPS and several oaths loudly stated by me.

The hole mentioned, is behind the adjuster, and may still be protected by a rubber plug, which is simply pulled out.



jdbs3 Sat Aug 23, 2008 5:05 am

Thanks all for the quick input. In thinking back on it, I believe we did have the emergency brake on :(

Two follow-up questions that hopefully I'll hear back on before I leave in a few hours to work on the Van:

- With the wheel off and the drum rotating freely, you could hear the scraping noise I was hearing when driving the van. Thus our diagnosis of bad wheel bearings.

I know for brakes, you always do it in pairs. Is this the same for the wheel bearings? That is, since I am replacing the inner and outer wheel bearing on the left side, should I also do the same on the right side?

- BUT, in reading about CV joints in the various forums, the noise I hear could also possibly be attributed to the CV joint. Yet with the wheel on, the axle did not move from side to side.

Given the above information, does it sound like the wheel bearings is the problem, and I can rule out the CV joints for now?

In either case, I would replace the wheel bearings and see if this fixes the problem before tackling the CV joints.

thanks

jdbs3 Sat Aug 23, 2008 5:20 am

And one other question (I am learning fast).

I am assuming that if a wheel bearing is bad that I would replace both the inner and outer wheel bearing on the left side. That is, not just replace one of them. correct?

Famous 01 Sat Aug 23, 2008 7:07 am

It's about the same amount of work to replace rear bearings as ti repack them. If your van has 100K or more, they may never have been repacked and will probably show some wear. The cost of the bearings and seals is modest and it's a fair-sized job to get at them so while you're in there you might as well, then you can ignore things for another 100K. :-)

You'll need a hydraulic press or access to one and a brass drift to get the axle shaft, bearings and races out---and lots of rags--it's a messy job.

Know how to repack a bearing with a dobb of grease in your palm?
-Kent

kshbaja Sat Aug 23, 2008 10:33 am

from someone that has done this before, is the bentley procedure for replacing the rear brake shoes/drums sufficient? any gotchas? anyone have a link to a good tek? also, what special tools should be purchased?

Mofus Sat Aug 23, 2008 11:36 am

I just did the rear brakes on my van, and the only area where you have to get a little creative is putting the the retaining springs/clips back on (I think that's what their called). The VW tool probably makes it really simple. I used a pair of needle nose pliers to push the round clip past the pin, and another pair of pliers to turn the clip into position. The first one took about 2-3 minutes. The rest took about 20-30 seconds.

jdbs3 Tue Aug 26, 2008 2:15 pm

Just an update.

I was incorrect, we did not have the emergency brake on when trying to get the drum off. Hammering with a wood mallet got us no where.

What finally worked was to use a puller whose ends fit in the groves of a spare rim. We mounted the rim on the studs, half tightened a few of the bolts, placed the puller ends in the holes in the rim, and the other part in the spindle end and tightened it up. The drum finally gave way and we got it off.

We also used the puller to get the wheel bearing housing off the spindle, and to get it back on.

Since the noise seemed to be coming from the wheel bearings, we replaced them rather than just re-grease the existing ones. We also had to replace the wheel cylinder, and repack the outer CV joint.

First time I did anything like this, but all quite straightforward. The Bentley helped, as did this and other forums, and especially working with another person who has done a lot of this before.

My thanks to all for your comments.



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