TheSamba.com :: View topic - my van keeps falling on it's face!! Help!

Sun Aug 24, 2008 9:47 am

Hi Volks folks, I have a 85 transporter with orig 43k on it, she's a nice van for sure I bought it with 40k So I've been having this problem similar to another fellow memebers van his thread was titled van just quit at 60mph Anyways mine does the same thing everything just dies, it seems like it does it when under load, sometimes in town, sometimes on the hwy, very random too. There is no poping or backfiring either. I have already replaced the fuel pump and filter twice, checked the mass air flow and cleaned it with rubbing alcohol, has all new copper contact tune up stuff and what not. Guys at go westy suggested the mass air flow cleaning, and fuel pump and that if that didn't do it that it could be the computer. HELP! I don't want to just keep throwing $$ at it. The weird thing is that after I changed the fuel pump the first time we thought it was fixed, drove it from WI to the NW corner of CO Rockies. Now I'm here and it is doing again. Any help would be great!! Thanks! 8)
ironhorsejockey@hotmail.com

Sun Aug 24, 2008 9:35 pm

When it quits does the tach just drop like a rock, or does, it go down with engine speed?

Mon Aug 25, 2008 6:29 am

Hmm, I think it goes down with the engine. You can actually hear the fuel pump stop getting electricity. I'll have to drive her again I guess to find out about the tac. What do you think it could be?

Mon Aug 25, 2008 9:45 am

If you need a place to crash while you are stuck in CO, let me know. I live in the Boulder area and am from WI as well.

Mon Aug 25, 2008 11:58 am

If you hear the fuel pump drop off line, then it may well be your problem. You should just barely be able to hear it. It is controlled by a relay typically a #53, which somebody who know 85 year model better than I, will have to fill you in on its location. If the tach drops like a US relay team baton, then the wiring to either the distributer for the Hall sender is suspect or the wiring to the Coil has issues. These can be either supply side or ground.

At the ECU it can be cruddy contact or just a loose connector. The master ground from the ECU to body can also use a clean up.

Wiring issues can manifest themselves like component failure. The wiring in these vans is in as good a shape as my ligaments, so look carefully.

The caution being said about wiring, heat soaking tends to affect the Fuel Pump and the Coil adversely, especially when they are beyond college age.

Mon Aug 25, 2008 1:47 pm

It could be either of the two relays that are in the relay box hanging on the left wall of the engine bay, just above the coil. The left one is the main FI power relay, the right is the fuel pump relay. Old relays with tired pulldown coils can open their circuits unexpectedly, especially after they get hot after driving awhile, but can work perfectly on the next try. If you hear the fuel pump quit right when the engine does, but the tach doesn't drop like a stone, settling down with the actual rpms instead, I would suspect the fuel pump relay. These relays are the most common type, used all over your vehicle, and available at any flaps for a few dollars each. The left one (main FI power) on late vans (90+) are a different type, though.

Another suspect is the igntion switch.

Mon Aug 25, 2008 5:33 pm

Wow I love this site, only v-dub owners love thier cars this much! Thanks for all the input...so what if the tac DOES drop like a rock? And thanks for the place to crash!! may take ya' up on that if need be 8)

Mon Aug 25, 2008 7:45 pm

Dog covered this above; if the tach drops like a rock and THEN the engine dies (or more like they're simultaneous), the problem is interruption of the Hall rpm signal that triggers ignition and injection.

Take a close look at the diz connector and the three wires in that branch of the wiring harness for cracked insulation or fraying/broken wires. This problem usually crops up right after someone has R&R'ed the engine or messed around with the diz and the old dried-up wires get broken. A failing Hall generator can also be the cause. Also, check carefully that all the wires on the ignition coil are connected firmly.

Fri Sep 19, 2008 9:34 am

OK I tried replacing the relay and even switched it over to the over to the other relay too...but it's doing it worse now. It pretty much does it rite away now, no need to warm up or drive it for a while, and the RPM's do go down with the speed of the vehicle. Help!

Fri Sep 19, 2008 4:59 pm

luvdubs wrote: OK I tried replacing the relay and even switched it over to the over to the other relay too...but it's doing it worse now. It pretty much does it rite away now, no need to warm up or drive it for a while, and the RPM's do go down with the speed of the vehicle. Help!

You may have a low mile vehicle, but it is still 23 years old. It seems pretty clear that you have an electrical problem, so i'd start diagnosing the harness, paying special attention to the grounds and the ground contact points in the engine. Look for continuity, and potentially corroded or broken wires near the connectors.

-Damon

Sat Sep 20, 2008 3:56 am

i have made a test wire for various needs=long as wbx,u could clip to hot term of fuel pump p;ug into cig lighter,duct tape to keep in place and go for a test drive. since it acts up a lot now can narrow to a elect or pump prblm.

Sat Sep 20, 2008 3:58 am

also can just clip to pos batt term,mine is also inline fused.

Sat Sep 20, 2008 7:23 am

Have you tried replacing the electrical portion of the ignition switch ? Even if it is not bad they are cheap and commonly break
Next time it dies ,try holding the switch to the"ON" position and see what happens.
Mine was doing this and I tried lots of otherr hings until I traced it to the switch. I ended up driving home holding the key "ON"

Stacy

Sat Sep 20, 2008 7:36 am

I'm thinking something different: rust in the fuel tank. You said it got better briefly when you changed the fuel pump? 85 and earlier have a pre-filter ahead of the fuel pump. take it off and dump the contents from the tank end onto a clean white napkin. If there is a lot of rust scale, that might be your problem. this is often accompanied by increased noise from the fuel pump. In normal operation, you should not hear your fuel pump.
Al

Sat Sep 20, 2008 8:53 am

I've had a similar or maybe even the same problem as this plague me at different times on my 85 weekender.

As mentioned the fuel pump should be pretty silent when running although when you turn the key 3/4 you will always hear it cycle, before I replaced my gunky old tank and the filter would get plugged you would hear it buzz loudly but I never actually had the engine shut down because of it.

I have to think that it's one of the previous things mentioned (hall sender/relays/ignition switch you can replace two of the three in about 45 min and 20$ (switch/relays) but this sounds a lot like what i went through before I replaced my hall sender...a clean start then w/o warning dead...no start, go back move around the wiring harness and then it would fire run fine for days then die etc... look very closely at the 3 wires going into the diz and the plug.

Last when my tank was bad it would sometimes actually plug up the outlet running to the fuel pump, I never completely lost power but it was pretty bad, when it dies pull the feed to the pump and check for flow.

Good luck, Todd.

Sat Sep 20, 2008 9:08 am

I had the same problem. the van would just die at random times,no rhyme or reason for it. tach dropped like a rock.new hall sender,no more problem.

Sat Sep 20, 2008 8:07 pm

Had you tried replacing the distributor?
It happened to me before, and that seem to cure it.

Fri Sep 26, 2008 6:29 pm

dist/hall sender i snext, did some bypass tests with a hard wire in the relay terminals, so it seems it would be the hall....fingers crossed!
Thanks again for the input! 8)

Wed Oct 01, 2008 5:30 pm

Well i've replaced the dist/hall AND now the ECU and idle stabalizer. Thats it the entire system has been replaced. I have an ignition switch, but I've messed and done some little tests and I just don't think thats it. Now that i've put the ECU in it's dying just idling to, so it would seem bad wires but i'm burnt...I've been stuck in CO now for 4 days nextdaying parts so another $1,000+ in parts and shipping, $300 in motel. I'm getting towed to VW dealer in Glennwood springs. Out of 12 VW's of ALL types and years this van is breaking my love for the dubs and my wallet. :cry:

Wed Oct 01, 2008 11:55 pm

luvdubs wrote: Well i've replaced the dist/hall AND now the ECU and idle stabalizer. Thats it the entire system has been replaced. I have an ignition switch, but I've messed and done some little tests and I just don't think thats it. Now that i've put the ECU in it's dying just idling to, so it would seem bad wires but i'm burnt...I've been stuck in CO now for 4 days nextdaying parts so another $1,000+ in parts and shipping, $300 in motel. I'm getting towed to VW dealer in Glennwood springs. Out of 12 VW's of ALL types and years this van is breaking my love for the dubs and my wallet. :cry:
Well, you have not answered back that you did what I suggested. Furthermore, if you have rust in your tank, the entire pickup strainer inside the tank could be clogged with rust. This is a common ailment of cars that sat unused for a long time.
You might have to blow backwards thru the fuel pickup tube into the tank. Take off the gas cap unless you want a gas bath.
These problems have plugged on mine to the point where it would kill and would limit the speed to a crawl.
Have you checked the fuel pressure at the hose by the injectors?
Al