TheSamba.com :: View topic - The idiot book's telling me to use white gas..

Mon Aug 25, 2008 8:28 pm

My girlfriend recently bought me the "Idiot Book" and while doing my rear brakes, I decided to page through it.

My rear passanger cyl. was work and leaking so the shoes had basically soaked in brake fluid. They're reletively new and have tons of miles on them. The idiot book mentioned using white gas to soak them and then lighting them on fire to burn off any contaminates. Seems like an IFFY idea to me lol.

My questions:

Is this a BAD idea..?
Can rear shoes ('72 square) be had at a place like pep-boys?

Mon Aug 25, 2008 8:38 pm

I have found the pads and shoes easily at my import parts house BAP here in town with no problem and I even got my 67 dual curcut master from checker auto parts... no one else had it, so pep boys should be good

Mon Aug 25, 2008 8:45 pm

They are the basically the same shoes as is sold for the front of Super Beetle.
Not hard to find.

Mon Aug 25, 2008 9:17 pm

Russ Wolfe wrote: They are the basically the same shoes as is sold for the front of Super Beetle.
Not hard to find.

Elaborate?

Mon Aug 25, 2008 9:20 pm

The Idiot Book was called that for a reason. :roll:

Soaking brake linings with white gas (basically lead- free super premium) and setting them on fire can't possibly do the linings any good, esp. if they're bonded.

Spray off the shoes with a can of brake parts cleaner, let 'em dry, and scuff the surfaces with emery cloth or sandpaper.

Mon Aug 25, 2008 9:52 pm

I always replace any contaminated brake linings.
the reason for this , is the way brakes work.friction

the lining must be free of oil. brake fluid is oil and if it comes between the drum and the shoe, no friction

it would be like using bars of soap ... you will have no stopping power

so even if you think the shoes are clean.. there is still oil inside the
fibers of the shoe...

so just get the new shoes and have lots of stopping power.

and always replace in pairs

if you replace one part of the brake system on a given axle, replace it's
twin/counterpart

Brake fluid comes in a number of forms, and is standardized worldwide by the United States Department of Transportation (DOT). DOT 2 is essentially castor oil; DOT 3, DOT 4, and DOT 5.1 are composed of various mineral oils, glycol esters, and ethers; some are synthetic oil based, and DOT 5 is silicone-based. As of 2006, most cars produced in the U.S. use DOT3

A diol or glycol is a chemical compound containing two hydroxyl groups (-OH groups) [1] Vicinal diols have hydroxyl groups attached to adjacent atoms. Examples of vicinal diol compounds are ethylene glycol and propylene glycol.

Esters are a class of chemical compounds and functional groups. Esters consist of an inorganic or organic acid in which at least one -OH (hydroxyl) group is replaced by an -O-alkyl (alkoxy) group. Some acids that are commonly esterified are carboxylic acids, phosphoric acid, sulfuric acid, nitric acid, and boric acid. Volatile esters, particularly carboxylate esters, often have a pleasant smell and are found in perfumes, essential oils, and pheromones, and give many fruits their scent. Ethyl acetate and methyl acetate are important solvents; fatty acid esters form fat and lipids; phosphoesters form the backbone of DNA molecules; and polyesters are important plastics. Cyclic esters are called lactones. The name "ester" is derived from the German Essig-Äther (literally: vinegar ether), an old name for ethyl acetate. Esters can be synthesized in a condensation reaction between an acid and an alcohol in a reaction known as esterification.

hobby modellers use brake fluid as a safe (if somewhat slow) paint stripper. It is less likely to harm skin and will not harm plastics. Brake fluid can also be used as a releasing fluid for screw threads, provided no painted parts are involved.

Mon Aug 25, 2008 9:56 pm

with the cost of fuel it would be cheaper to replace then soak anyway

Mon Aug 25, 2008 10:12 pm

Mobiltune wrote: I always replace any contaminated brake linings.
the reason for this , is the way brakes work.

the lining must be free of oil. brake fluid is oil and if it comes between the drum and the shoe, no friction

it would be like using bars of soap ... you will have no stopping power

so even if you think the shoes are clean.. there is still oil inside the
fibers of the shoe...

so just get the new shoes and have lots of stopping power.

and always replace in pairs

if you replace one part of the brake system on a given axle, replace it's
twin/counterpart

Brake fluid is a solvent, not an oil.

Brake parts cleaner is DESIGNED to remove fluids and oils from brake parts. That's why it's called brake parts cleaner

It's perfectly acceptable to clean and rough up contaminated brake pads. If they're worn, or show signs of other damage, of course replace them.

Mon Aug 25, 2008 10:50 pm

Thanks for all of the advice. I'm looking for a quick fix considering I can't have the car apart too much longer. I'm going to check my local parts stores tomorrow and if no one can get them by wednesday, I'll have to Brakleen 'em and re-assemble. I was thinking the bonding would fail after being on fire.

Thanks for the advice everyone.

P.S.

BOTH cylinders were in fact replaced!

Tue Aug 26, 2008 6:02 am

Tram wrote:

Brake fluid is a solvent, not an oil.

Brake parts cleaner is to remove fluids and oils from brake parts. That's why it's NOT called contaminated brake SHOE cleaner

It's perfectly acceptable to clean and rough up contaminated(from grease) brake pads.(wtf are pads?) If they're worn, or show signs of other damage,(contamation) of course replace them. do your brakes grab?

Tue Aug 26, 2008 6:23 am

atrujillo1991 wrote: My girlfriend recently bought me the "Idiot Book" and while doing my rear brakes, I decided to page through it.

My rear passanger cyl. was leaking so the shoes had basically soaked in brake fluid. They're reletively new and have tons of miles on them. The idiot book mentioned using white gas to soak them and then lighting them on fire to burn off any contaminates. Seems like an IFFY idea to me lol.

:idea: They're reletively new and have tons of miles on them
the shoes had basically soaked in brake fluid... haha I guess thats why they look new...

seems to me brake parts cleaner, may clean the surface, but not the heart
of the problem....

Tue Aug 26, 2008 7:23 am

My sediments exactly.

Called all of my local parts stores and luckily, one was able to have the shoes in by the end of the day. My doubts about the old shoes arose this morning when I found slight surface rust on the non-soaked pads while the soaked pads looked like freshly shined tires. :roll:

Any suggestions on what type of fluid I should use? I was thinking about draining the entire system in favor of fresh brake fluid. What's the system capacity?

Tue Aug 26, 2008 8:01 am

Mobiltune wrote: Tram wrote:

Brake fluid is a solvent, not an oil.

Brake parts cleaner is to remove fluids and oils from brake parts. That's why it's NOT called contaminated brake SHOE cleaner

It's perfectly acceptable to clean and rough up contaminated(from grease) brake pads.(wtf are pads?) If they're worn, or show signs of other damage,(contamation) of course replace them. do your brakes grab?

Make your posts readable. If you want to emphasize something, just bold it.
Small fonts, and certain colored fonts are hard for some people to read. Especially if they have eye problems.

Tue Aug 26, 2008 8:06 am

BTW, DOT 3 and 4 brake fluid is water soluble. Just wash them in hot soapy water, if you want to salvage them. DOT 5 is silicone based, and if it soaks your brake shoes, just throw them away.

Tue Aug 26, 2008 11:49 am

atrujillo1991 wrote: Any suggestions on what type of fluid I should use? I was thinking about draining the entire system in favor of fresh brake fluid. What's the system capacity?

Tue Aug 26, 2008 12:07 pm

atrujillo1991 wrote: atrujillo1991 wrote: Any suggestions on what type of fluid I should use? I was thinking about draining the entire system in favor of fresh brake fluid. What's the system capacity?

You might want to think of changing all the rubber brake lines while you're at it. DOT-3 or DOT-4 will work fine. The exact fluid capacity is one thing that Bentley does not give. A one quart bottle of fluid is plenty to flush and replenish the system.

Pull up the carpet and take a good look at the front to rear brake line that runs beside the tunnel on the driver's side.

Tue Aug 26, 2008 12:19 pm

The idea behind soaking then igniting is quite sound, although I would not use white gas (Coleman Fuel). I do clutch disks in that manner, soak in a tray of lacquer thinner or enamel reducer, which will draw out oil, shake it off, set it on a non flamable surface and ignite, you will have less than 10 seconds of flame. Oil is gone, lacquer thinner is gone, nothing is scorched or damaged and the part is now useable. Do not light it up while the part is soaking in the pan, not only is it unsafe but the part will cook down.

Tue Aug 26, 2008 3:34 pm

Russ Wolfe wrote: BTW, DOT 3 and 4 brake fluid is water soluble. Just wash them in hot soapy water, if you want to salvage them. DOT 5 is silicone based, and if it soaks your brake shoes, just throw them away.
Cool, a cheaper solution.

I have used spray brake cleaner as Tram mentioned above numerous times with no issues.