TheSamba.com :: View topic

Tue Aug 26, 2008 5:15 am

My mechanic has had my 84 Westy Vanagon since June. My original motor with 220,000kms had a bad head gasket when I dropped it off. My mechanic felt that a replacement motor would be the best way to save my summer while he rebuilds my motor.

The new motor went in without a problem. It starts and runs fine. No smoke (black or white) out of the tail pipe. He claims that he can drive the van for an hour or so before the coolant starts filling the overflow tank which eventually fills and spills out. He rebleeds the system afterwards and it's full of air again.

I had him replace the radiator and coolant tank cap after reading other related threads in this forum. He has also replaced the thermostat and water pump.

He has know determined that it's an internal motor problem since he can't think of anything else. If a cracked head is allowing compression to pressurize the cooling system, I figured that you would also notice white smoke out the pipe and/or the coolant would be black or dark. Besides that, I thought a compression/leak down test would reveal a bad head.

Anybody have any suggestion for me. I've lost summer 2008 already.

Tue Aug 26, 2008 5:43 am

sounds like the(majority)typical cyl to head sealing ring leaking.a quick test is to have filled & get on a log hill & if temp starts to climb rather fast & drops down whenon level its a good symptom of a leaky seal plus the overflo tank being overfilled.

Tue Aug 26, 2008 6:45 am

Sounds like the exact symptoms that my engine had when it had bad cylinder gaskets. Ran perfect, no odd smoke out the tail pipe or abnormal coolant coloring, but when driven on the highway for more than an hour at sustained speeds it would push coolant out of the overflow tank and the light would blink due to low coolant. Eventually it got bad enough where after 20 minutes on the highway the light would start to blink. I could however drive around town as much as i wanted without any problems at all. I guess the system bled itself out faster than air was being introduced into the coolant at the lower rpm's seen around town.

Tue Aug 26, 2008 6:54 am

> My mechanic felt that a replacement motor would be the best way to save my summer while he rebuilds my motor.

good idea, IF your mechanic had been lucky enough to find a used motor that did not have a compression leak

> The new motor went in without a problem.

the "new" motor IS the problem. It has a compression leak, like morymob said.

there is a reason why that used engine had been removed

sounds like your mechanic had not gotten around to rebuilding it yet, and forgot what was wrong with it.. just a guess

Tue Aug 26, 2008 7:07 am

I guess my biggest problem is that he hasn't proven to me what the problem is. I didn't want to install a newly rebuilt motor into a van with a problematic cooling system. That's why I wanted the new rad, cap, etc, replaced.

Had he told me something like he had done a leak down test which resulted in a problem on cylinder #3, I would feel better about the whole situation. Instead, he has told me that he's tried everything else so it must be a motor problem.

I discovered another interesting point in another thread where the overflow tank return line had become blocked with Stop Leak so the coolant kept filling the overflow tank but never returning back to the expansion tank. The first thing my mechanic did when I brought him my van with the bad head gasket, was add two tins of stop leak that he got from a VW dealership. When that didn't work, I sourced a replacement motor.

Tue Aug 26, 2008 7:33 am

Sounds like you have a crapass mechanic that is guessing at whats wrong. Any monkey can shotgun parts. I would find a new mechanic.

Tue Aug 26, 2008 1:59 pm

Envious wrote:

I discovered another interesting point in another thread where the overflow tank return line had become blocked with Stop Leak so the coolant kept filling the overflow tank but never returning back to the expansion tank.

It's one line, the cap releases pressure above 15psi, and pulls it back on the same line when the system cools.

Tue Aug 26, 2008 2:03 pm

Envious wrote: ... The first thing my mechanic did when I brought him my van with the bad head gasket, was add two tins of stop leak that he got from a VW dealership....

The first thing I'd do is find another mechanic.

Tue Aug 26, 2008 3:32 pm

get your van and run like u STOLE IT!!

Tue Aug 26, 2008 5:27 pm

Get rid of the mechanic. Keep the van if you can afford to fix it.

The fact that your mechanic put a couple jugs of stop leak in your van is a darn shame. I feel that a good, professional mechanic should diagnose a problem and fix it, not use stop leak. You could have dumped that junk in and ruined your own car without paying a mechanic for the privelege. Maybe your new problem is that the coolant system is clogged up with stop leak stuff? But I'm just guessing.

I would try replacing the pressurized coolant cap with a new one AGAIN. (I'm talking about the cap with the nipple that has a hose connected to it). It's only a few bucks and then you can rule it out for sure. Sometimes you do get a bad one, and the symptoms of an un-pressuized system include coolant overheating then overflowing out of the overflow tank.

After that it sounds like it could be a bad cylinder head gasket in the engine. Is this a used engine? Did your mechanic guarantee it?

Quote: He has know determined that it's an internal motor problem since he can't think of anything else.

Because he can't think of anything else? That doesn't sound like a very good diagnostic procedure, if you ask me.

Tue Aug 26, 2008 10:25 pm

The only thing worse that a broken van is a lousy mechanic. A real mechanic will test not guess. I took my van to a guy who said he specialized in VW's both air and water. $400 bones later I picked up my van and was told to sell it it wasn't worth fixing. Took it to a real shop for $145 they tested said I needed new o2 and Temp sensor and throttle body gasket. Replaced it all myself. To make a long story short(2late) ur problem is ur mechanic.

Wed Aug 27, 2008 3:08 pm

Envious wrote: My mechanic has had my 84 Westy Vanagon since June. My original motor with 220,000kms had a bad head gasket when I dropped it off. My mechanic felt that a replacement motor would be the best way to save my summer while he rebuilds my motor.

The new motor went in without a problem. It starts and runs fine. No smoke (black or white) out of the tail pipe. He claims that he can drive the van for an hour or so before the coolant starts filling the overflow tank which eventually fills and spills out. He rebleeds the system afterwards and it's full of air again.

I had him replace the radiator and coolant tank cap after reading other related threads in this forum. He has also replaced the thermostat and water pump.

He has know determined that it's an internal motor problem since he can't think of anything else. If a cracked head is allowing compression to pressurize the cooling system, I figured that you would also notice white smoke out the pipe and/or the coolant would be black or dark. Besides that, I thought a compression/leak down test would reveal a bad head.

Anybody have any suggestion for me. I've lost summer 2008 already.

I see all those post about head / cracked / bad gasket / high coolant pressure.... but no one is doing the only real test that will tell you righ away what is the problem!!!!

http://www.benplace.com/pressure_test.htm

Ben

Wed Aug 27, 2008 6:03 pm

There is a chemical tool to check for carbon monoxide in the coolant. I have used it succesfully to diagnose a leaking head gasket. It checks for fumes in the coolant tank and changes colors if the exhaust is leaking into coolant. NAPA has it. It is easy to use. It is like a syphon that pulls the fumes out of coolant system through the liquid chemical. If the liquid turns yellow you have exhaust gas in there. That is how I found many cracked heads and bad gaskets. Just a thought

Thu Aug 28, 2008 6:51 am

Sounds like good thing to have around if you don't happen to have a CO sniffer. Testing for CO in the coolant is even quicker and easier than the coolant pressure test, which is itself pretty darn easy. If there is a leak at the cylinder top or thru a cracked head, sniffing for CO will show up the problem.

It won't point up cyl base leaks or external coolant leaks, for that a pressure test is what needs to be done.

Mon Nov 10, 2008 8:30 pm

For what it's worth, I thought that I'd update this thread. We moved the van to another mechanic and I felt that he would get the job done. I took him a couple of months to get around to looking at it but he finally did. He rebuilt the engine replacing the necesary parts. After it was assembled, the cooling system still pressuring. He performed a leak down test and noticed that cylinder #1 was the culprit. He took the head back off that side and noticed that the compression sealing ring was trashed again and upon inspection also noticed that the head was damaged where it installs. He couldn't tell if the damage was done when the heads were previously fly cut during rebuilding or just a bad casting. Either way, he replaced the head and it looks like we're in the clear.

That only took 5 months!!! I'm having my second motor rebuilt and crated so I never lose another summer.

Tue Nov 11, 2008 7:36 am

Envious wrote: For what it's worth, I thought that I'd update this thread. We moved the van to another mechanic and I felt that he would get the job done. I took him a couple of months to get around to looking at it but he finally did. He rebuilt the engine replacing the necesary parts. After it was assembled, the cooling system still pressuring. He performed a leak down test and noticed that cylinder #1 was the culprit. He took the head back off that side and noticed that the compression sealing ring was trashed again and upon inspection also noticed that the head was damaged where it installs. He couldn't tell if the damage was done when the heads were previously fly cut during rebuilding or just a bad casting. Either way, he replaced the head and it looks like we're in the clear.

That only took 5 months!!! I'm having my second motor rebuilt and crated so I never lose another summer.

This is unbelievable and unacceptable, it'S a 3-4 day job, on top, it was poorly done and it took 5 months. That says a lot about mechanic that don't know shi* about Wasser engine.

Sorry, i see that to often, even locally.

Ben

Tue Nov 11, 2008 7:48 am

ftp2leta wrote: Envious wrote: For what it's worth, I thought that I'd update this thread. We moved the van to another mechanic and I felt that he would get the job done. I took him a couple of months to get around to looking at it but he finally did. He rebuilt the engine replacing the necesary parts. After it was assembled, the cooling system still pressuring. He performed a leak down test and noticed that cylinder #1 was the culprit. He took the head back off that side and noticed that the compression sealing ring was trashed again and upon inspection also noticed that the head was damaged where it installs. He couldn't tell if the damage was done when the heads were previously fly cut during rebuilding or just a bad casting. Either way, he replaced the head and it looks like we're in the clear.

That only took 5 months!!! I'm having my second motor rebuilt and crated so I never lose another summer.
This is unbelievable and unacceptable, it'S a 3-4 day job, on top, it was poorly done and it took 5 months. That says a lot about mechanic that don't know shi* about Wasser engine.

Sorry, i see that to often, even locally.

Ben
Ya, I agree. The first shop is the only vintage VW shop in my area. I was incredibley disappointed since I have one of the larger collections in the area, which means I need a lot of parts to keep them all maintained and running. I have always tried to support them and I will continue to by purchasing my generic parts from them. I had commissioned them to rebuild two waterboxer motors, a tranny rebuild, and a new street/strip motor for one of my aircooled cars. I finally received my aircooled motor and feel luke warm about the end result. They never got the first waterboxer working so I picked up my toys and left.

The second shop was excellent but constantly bumped my Vanagon for easy money (oil changes, brakes, etc) on daily driven, late model VW and Audi's. It took them two months to get around to looking at it but only a couple of days to rebuild the motor.