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Wed Aug 27, 2008 5:11 pm

My ghia is driving me to the brink of insanity!

Loudness/Vibrations
For some reason, it sounds twice as loud inside as it does outside. On the outside, you have that quiet, bubbly, characteristic vw engine sound. But on the inside, it sounds like the engine is in the back seat and directly connected to the pan with no rubber mounts in-between. The whole inside of the car vibrates and resonates. It's not a bone-jarring, deafening vibration, like you would have if your flywheel were out of balance. It's more of a mild, high-frequency, constant vibration. But it's enoug that by the time I've made a trip into town and back, my nerves are shot and my teeth hurt from vibrating against each other.

Every other car I've ever been in (never been in another VW), it's quieter inside than outside. Part of the problem might be that there's no undercoating on the pan. I don't know if there's any padding under the carpet, either. I know there's not any under the carpet behind the seats, but I haven't checked up front.

I don't know what a ghia is supposed to sound like inside, but to me it seems like it should be about 50 decibels quieter, and it shouldn't vibrate so much.

"Rubbing" or "Grinding" Noise
Equally consternating is that while driving down the road, there is a constant, low-level sound emanating from underneath the car. Could be from up front, but I can't tell. It might just be the sound of the rubber rolling down the road, being distorted through the floor pans. But it almost sounds like I'm running on bone-dry bearings, or that the brake pads are 100% gone and I'm just grinding metal on metal. But the sound doesn't change when I brake, so that's not likely it. It's not horrifically loud, but now that I've keyed into it, I can't tune it out. What do bad bearings sound like?

Loud Clunking
Lastly, when I hit a pothole with the right side, there is a very loud "CLUNK" that comes from the right rear wheel area. It's gotta be something in the suspension, but in the limited time I've had to look at it, I can't see anything that raises any flags. Any thoughts?

Thanks,
Blaine

Wed Aug 27, 2008 5:42 pm

Are you sure you're not secretly taking my car out when I'm not driving it? :lol: My car has a lot of these sounds. I haven't gotten around to working on sound proofing yet because I'm still trying to get my car straight for inspection. My mechanic has driven my car several times and has never said anything about it being overly loud for a ghia, then again, I've never asked. Here's a couple of things that I KNOW/SUSPECT cause noise in my car - the stick shift shakes. Took me a few rides to figure that noise out. There's a screw that holds it in place. Tightening it helps that. I've been told there's supposed to be a latch that holds the engine hood closed. I don't have a latch. My back right window has a piece broken at the bottom. I haven't proven that makes any noise yet, but I count it out yet either. It doesn't appear to move when locked, but going over a bump may still make it rub. Those last 2 could definitely make noise going over pot holes. Weather stripping needs to be redone on my car also. See if your widows go up all the way. I have to open my doors to get them up all the way and still there's tiny cracks on the sides. Oh, and sometimes they shake like crazy too, up or down. I've also thought about laying a blanket under the back seat to deafen some of the engine and road noise. They're just some thoughts and things to look for from one ghia newbie to another. I'm sure these other guys on here can give you some more technical advice. Good luck!

Wed Aug 27, 2008 6:19 pm

These are worn out antique cars, kids.
It's not like driving a 2005 Honda Civic. :wink:

Wed Aug 27, 2008 6:49 pm

iowegian wrote: These are worn out antique cars, kids.
It's not like driving a 2005 Honda Civic. :wink:

Yes, iowegian... they sure are. However, my first car was born in 1972, and was about 15 years old when I bought it. I've daily-driven worn out antique cars ever since (I can remember at least 10 over the past 20 years that were at least 25 years old), and the only other one that ever made me feel so malcontent was a '64 Corvair whose flywheel rivets had given up the ghost. That's why I'm concerned that there's something more at play here than just antiquity.

To me, based on prior experience, it's not normal for it to be 2 times louder inside the car than out. But again, this is my first VW, and I'm finding that they are far more unique than I ever could have imagined, and therefore I can't compare it with any other experience.

I'm really just trying to find out what's normal for 40 year old VW and what's not. If everyone says, "yeah, that's a 40 year old VW for ya!", then I'll just accept it and go on. :D

Blaine

Wed Aug 27, 2008 6:58 pm

My 66 Ghia is quiet and a pleasure to drive. You need to check everything. Look for loose rear wheel bearing nut. Bad shocks. Engine making too much rolling noise? Check to make sure nothing is rubbing in the doghouse. You really need to do an inspection of all moving parts. It should be as quiet as your muffler lets it be.

Wed Aug 27, 2008 7:10 pm

Mike,

That's exactly what I expect the majority of ghia owners to report. Why? Because I am frankly astounded at the quality of engineering in these cars. Talk about attention to detail. The doors and every other latch opens and closes with the slightest effort, and so smoothly and quietly. And that's just the beginning. I just can't imagine that with everything else on the car so refined and well functioning that the Germans would have built a car that would do anything but glide down the road as smoothly and quietly as a swan on a glassy lake.

Granted, these cars are old -- but, if once they were smooth and quiet, they can be made so again. What I'm trying to do is discover why it's not driving right, and fix it. I want a smooth, quiet, quality ride -- not like driving down the railroad tracks on bare rims.

Blaine

Wed Aug 27, 2008 7:25 pm

iowegian wrote:
You obviously know more than I do, Blaine. They never were "smooth and quiet".
I have owned air-cooled VW's and Porsches since the mid-1960s and -yes
they are noisy. (Don't forget that they were designed about 75 years ago)

Well, I won't argue with you... there's no need to be sarcastic. :P

But if that's the case, then, IMHO, those Italian/German engineers sure wasted a lot of time making the rest of the car so wonderful...

What a shame.

Blaine

Wed Aug 27, 2008 8:11 pm

utvairs wrote: iowegian wrote:
You obviously know more than I do, Blaine. They never were "smooth and quiet".
I have owned air-cooled VW's and Porsches since the mid-1960s and -yes
they are noisy. (Don't forget that they were designed about 75 years ago)

Well, I won't argue with you... there's no need to be sarcastic. :P

But if that's the case, then, IMHO, those Italian/German engineers sure wasted a lot of time making the rest of the car so wonderful...

What a shame.

Blaine
Oh------never mind.

Wed Aug 27, 2008 8:40 pm

iowegian wrote:
Oh------never mind.

LOL! Good show. :wink:

Thu Aug 28, 2008 2:02 am

From my experience VWs are quite noisy as most air cooled engines are but the plus side is that because the engines in the back you dont get the noise associated with front engined cars. My car is 38 years old what you have to remember is they are not like a modern car and take some getting used to, they may look like a refined piece of German engineering but by todays standards they dont have the sound deadening properties of new cars. There will be an element of acceptable noise but any grinding, clunking, banging etc will need further investigation.

Airhead

Thu Aug 28, 2008 3:30 am

Thanks Airhead. :)

I've been driving rear-engined, aircooled cars exclusively (just not VW's) for about 12 years now, so I know they have a unique sound that can be overbearing. I think what I'm trying to say is that I can't even hear the engine unless I stick my head out the window, because the vibration/resonance/rumbling inside the car is deafening.

I know how critical it is to be constantly listening for odd noises, etc. when you're driving old cars. I'm hearing noises that I think are coming from the wheels/suspension, which could be indicating something very wrong -- but I can't locate them or even determine for sure what they are, because of the deafening noises that fill the cab.

Clearly, I have discovered, and you have now confirmed, that there was very little (if any) sound deadening material installed from the factory. But with today's sound deadening technology, we ought to be able to remedy the situation.

I think it's time to start a new thread...
Thanks,
Blaine

Thu Aug 28, 2008 7:26 am

Blaine:

What you have described does not sound right. While an ACVW is noisier than a "modern" car, driving it should not be painful.

I would start looking for the causes of the noise.

Thu Aug 28, 2008 7:32 am

execk2 wrote: My 66 Ghia is quiet and a pleasure to drive. You need to check everything. Look for loose rear wheel bearing nut. Bad shocks. Engine making too much rolling noise? Check to make sure nothing is rubbing in the doghouse. You really need to do an inspection of all moving parts. It should be as quiet as your muffler lets it be.

I agree, if it moves it makes noise, if it's out of tolerance/adjustment, it will make a lot of noise. "all moving parts" is a long list but Iowegien is right, these cars are realy old and no matter how good the engeneering is eventually everything wears out. That fact coupled with the abundance of crappily made replacement parts make "properly running ACVW" a relitive term.

Vibration... If your engine is tuned and running right the shaking vibration may be coming from it not being held in place properly. Check the transmission mounts and the 4 bolts that hold the engine/trans together.

Grinding... I personally wouldn't drive the car until I had removed/replaced/repacked all of the bearings and brakes and inspected/rebuilt the drive shaft CV joint assemblies. 60 Mph is not a good time for you to loose a wheel to a failed bearing...

Clunking... I know you said it was the back but check the ball joints and lube the front beam. in the rear, are the bump stops in place? shocks bottoming out maybe?

A thought, if your transmission mounts are torn/gone you may have two symptoms of the same illness...

Have fun!

Thu Aug 28, 2008 8:10 am

Thanks to all... Great advice.

This weekend I'll hopefully have time to thoroughly check all the points mentioned. First I've got to find a way to remove the "anti-theft" lugnuts the PO put on...

Also searched the forums and found some great discussions on sound deadening materials. Will try them out when I get some $$$ and report back.

Blaine