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Sun Aug 31, 2008 8:42 pm

Hi yall. I have what i think is a berrien sand rail frame. Here is a pic of it:

Anyhoo, i plan on cutting it up to extend it in to a four seater, and a few other modifications, so my question is, what kind of steel tubing do i need (as in the diameter, thickness, and grade or alloy #)? I don't know much about steel and that kind of stuff, all i know is that ya give me two pieces of metal and i weld them together :lol: .

I plan on cutting it up, to make it a four seater. i also want to extend the back out, so it will cover the engine, and give it that long sleek look. I will also increase the angle of the windshield, purely for looks as well. Also, can anyone tell me what model this frame is? It kinda looks like this, only the back is streched out more then mine, and it has the windshield angled out like i want:

This is a warrior rail. Is mine just an older version?

Sun Aug 31, 2008 8:44 pm

oh, and just so ya know, i do have the rest of it. I just don't want people saying "just buy a new 4 seater frame...it will be less work...blah blah" That was an old pic, since then it has been sanded down, and painted.

Sun Aug 31, 2008 8:56 pm

You probably want to go with 1.5 inch .095 wall tubing. You can use either cold rolled,which is probably what that frame is.Or you can go with DOM or chromoly.Either way,It would still most likely be cheaper to buy a new 4 seat frame than to start with what little you have.Why would you sand down and paint a frame that you need to cut up and do a bunch of welding on??Knock down chassis' can be had for fairly cheap.

Sun Aug 31, 2008 9:12 pm

Well, the only reason i painted it, was to keep it from rusting while im messing with it, and i had nothing better to do at the time :lol: . And it only cost me about $30 in paint cans from wal-mart ($5 rust-o-leum rust restorer, NOT the 96 cent wal-mart shit :lol: )

Also, i want to do this for the satisfaction of doing it, and also to get some welding practice. So far the only thing i have welded was random scrap metal. I want to actually weld something "for real". I don't don't know about yall, but welding is fun to me. I would love to take a pile of metal and make something awsome out of it.

As i stated i do have the rest of it. I have a linkpin beam, the floor, a rear swingaxle torsion/tranny, and boxes of parts. I basically want to make it a four seater, but depending on how things "work out", i might just try for a 6 seater. Something so i can drive around with my friends (the bug just won't hold us all :lol: ).

Thaks for the specs on the tubing. Now i now what to tell the guy at the metal shop, when he asks "whacha lookin fer?" :wink: :lol:

Sun Aug 31, 2008 9:16 pm

Oh damn, was that 1.5 inside or outside diameter? Thanks so much for the info. :lol: , i really appreciate it.

Sun Aug 31, 2008 9:18 pm

sorry to burst your bubble but making a frame from what you have it pointless. you might as well make a whole new frame, i say this for a few reasons and one is that by the time you getting it all back together and extending stuff you going to have weakened the whole chassis alot by how its cut and how you would have to weld it back together. i mean you would have to sleeve just about every butt weld.

you might as well just buy a whole bare chassis or just make a whole one from a complete knock down kit.

Sun Aug 31, 2008 9:59 pm

Here is my idea. With the windshield, i was just going to grind the welds off the bottom, and cut the top bar (the one that corresponds to the red one) in half. Then weld the windshield back on the frame, but at more of an angle (shown as the green line). Then i'll grind the welds off the top bar that connects to the top of the windshield (red), then weld it at a higher wngle (like the red bar in the pic). Then i would extend the top bar (yellow) out. The grey bar would stay, or might replace, if it is too short. I would also just sleeve, and weld on more tubing (blue bar), and make the nessecary bends for it to work. Then for the front, simply sleeve, and weld on more tubing, to extend the front out, and attach beam brackets. I will probrobly do some sort of bumber as well. The pic basically explains it self. I tried to represent the angles, and lentgths i am going for.

I might even be able to just use one long tube for the yellow and blue parts of the pic.

The orange stuff is just additional bracing i will add for strength.

I am currently setting up a frame table, so i can have the rear toesion, and beam already positioned, so i can do the welding, and make sure everything is stright. There will definately be a lot of figuring out to do, as this is the first time i will ever be doing anything like this.

Sun Aug 31, 2008 10:00 pm

BugMan114 wrote:

Here is my idea. With the windshield, i was just going to grind the welds off the bottom, and cut the top bar (the one that corresponds to the red one) in half. Then weld the windshield back on the frame, but at more of an angle (shown as the green line). Then i'll grind the welds off the top bar that connects to the top of the windshield (red), then weld it at a higher wngle (like the red bar in the pic). Then i would extend the top bar (yellow) out. The grey bar would stay, or might replace, if it is too short. I would also just sleeve, and weld on more tubing (blue bar), and make the nessecary bends for it to work. Then for the front, simply sleeve, and weld on more tubing, to extend the front out, and attach beam brackets. I will probrobly do some sort of bumber as well. The pic basically explains it self. I tried to represent the angles, and lentgths i am going for.

I might even be able to just use one long tube for the yellow and blue parts of the pic.

The orange stuff is just additional bracing i will add for strength.

I am currently setting up a frame table, so i can have the rear toesion, and beam already positioned, so i can do the welding, and make sure everything is stright. There will definately be a lot of figuring out to do, as this is the first time i will ever be doing anything like this.

yeah dude you just built yourself an entirely new frame.

Sun Aug 31, 2008 10:03 pm

Quit trying to pee in his Cheerios... learning to fabricate is fun. Sounds like you have the right approach with a frame table. Keep posting up your progress, it will be fun to watch it take shape!

Sun Aug 31, 2008 10:07 pm

well, i do need something to go by. Its really more of a learning experience. besides, if i buy a new frame, what am i going to do with that. i can't just have it lying around.

Sun Aug 31, 2008 10:09 pm

Changed the name so i won't have to make another post :lol:

Sun Aug 31, 2008 10:41 pm

BugMan114 wrote: well, i do need something to go by. Its really more of a learning experience. besides, if i buy a new frame, what am i going to do with that. i can't just have it lying around.

you can get complete kits new that have all the pieces that you can build yourself and do whatever you want to with. its got the instructions to go by.

Mon Sep 01, 2008 5:40 am

What Kind of welder are you using? Everyone knows I am for building it yourself but if all you have ever welded is scrap metal I am not sure I would embark on such an endevor. I know early in my welding career I made some welds that looked good to me but were cold welds. And you are talking about building a chassis that you and 3 or MORE of your friends will be riding in. If you do decide to do it I would gusset every thing you can. And I hope you are not using a flux core welder. JMO
What ever you do have fun, when you are done you will be able to look at it and say I DID THAT!!!

Mon Sep 01, 2008 8:22 am

I currently have a 220v arc stick welder by lincoln. The same one they sell at homedepot, the big one, with the large dial on it. Anyway, i was thinking of buying a mig welder to get in those tight places.

Oh and i will definately gusset almost everything i can. And also lots of cross bracing as shown in orange in my pic, but everywhere.

Mon Sep 01, 2008 1:16 pm

BugMan, is this the welder you have?: http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet...=100041326

Mon Sep 01, 2008 3:22 pm

It looks exactly like that (same shape), except it has one big dial in the middle, not 2. Just like this one:

Fri Sep 05, 2008 2:52 am

Is this welder sufficient enough to weld in frame supports?

Fri Sep 05, 2008 3:46 am

gilbequick wrote: Is this welder sufficient enough to weld in frame supports?

Sure its sufficient, old school but its capabible of strong welds. We're all spoiled these days with the availability of mig welders. I welded my first rail with a similar welder, wasn't pretty (and they still aren't) but it held very well.

It makes a big difference if you store your welding rods in something that protects them from moisture.

Fri Sep 05, 2008 8:30 am

What do you mean by that? why do they have to be kept away from moisture? to keep from rusting?

also, i haven't gotten much done this week, as i work all week long. I am still working on the frame table/ jig. So i will work on it some more over the weekend, and i might take a trip to the steel shop, and pick up some tubing. even tho i am probrobly still a few weeks from needing it, it will make me think i am getting stuff done :lol:

Fri Sep 05, 2008 9:21 am

BugMan114 wrote: What do you mean by that? why do they have to be kept away from moisture? to keep from rusting?

moisture affects the coating on the rods. the coating on the rods when welding produces a gas that protects the weld. as you know, after you weld something there is a coating over the weld that you clip or brush off. i have the same welder. i keep my rods in o-ring sealed tubes that you can get from the supply store or you can use PVC pipe with screw on caps.