| richardsxfile |
Mon Sep 01, 2008 5:57 pm |
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Door hinge replacement has led to a slew of new problems.
Quick questions (followed by in depth – “how I got there” stuff.)
1. How can I adjust doors to accommodate end of dash pad and pillar rubber?
2. What is the correct size for “point A” bolt I need to shim to close gap at top and rear of door?
3. How can I get the bolt into that spot when holes don’t quite line up?
4. Where exactly is “point B” bolt I need to loosen before I shim “point A”?
5. Can I really close a half inch gap with a few mm of shim? There has to be some limit.
1. Now that the doors don’t sag, the rubber AND dash end get in the way of the door closing. Door stops about 3 inches from closing. I can close it if I push really hard, but I can’t imagine that constant pressure (and it is a lot) is good for the new hinges. There just doesn’t seem to be enough room between door and post to accommodate all that rubber and dash end. Should the dash be trimmed? See photo. Does it extend too far out to the left? Should it be trimmed where that line in the mold is? If I do that, the door will still come into contact with the piece that remains. Should I trim material off the back of that dash flap, so there isn’t so much material to compress? I imagine some day that end would fall apart if I chose this option, depending on how much I trim. Only other option I can imagine is putting shims behind the hinges, but the gap is perfect on the outside between door and fender. Funny thing is gap is same on passenger side but rubber and dash don’t cause as much of a problem. I still need to push but only the last inch.
2. Gap at back of driver’s door gets wider at top. I read posts on adjusting gap using shims at point A. (Bottom is correct, but top is ˝ inch gap – much too wide.) I took off the rear tire to shim away and…(see photo to see my problem.) The bolt isn’t even there! Worst suspicion as to why confirmed when I tried to drop a bolt in there. The holes don’t quite line up. The red section would need to move a couple mm out or the black bracket a couple in to drop a bolt in there. (BTW anyone sure of that bolt size, I tried an M10 – 1.5 with a 17mm head…correct pitch?) Just for kicks I checked passenger side and found bolt missing as well. That side is just the opposite, black bracket needs to come out or red section in a few mm. Is there any way at all with basic tools to make those holes line up or do I need to go to a bodyshop and get frame pullers involved? Also, where in the world is the “point B” bolt I need to loosen? Diagram is nebulous. It appears to be near the spring plate cover, but that’s as close as I can get.
3. Finally, assuming I get bolts in the point A spots and close the gap at the door, will my top still close properly? Won’t the left side be too far forward since I’m only bringing the left side up to close the gap? Is it only point A that gets the shim or is it point B as well?
…I just wanted doors that didn’t sag…
Is the dash end too long? I pulled rubber away to reposition and the dash pad alone still causes problems.
Look, Mom, no bolt! How can I get one in there if it's a couple mm off? Can I loosen/adjust something with basic tools or do I need jaws of life?
Where are you, point B?
Is this the point B bolt?
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| hpw |
Mon Sep 01, 2008 6:49 pm |
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[quote="richardsxfile"]Door hinge replacement has led to a slew of new problems.
Quick questions (followed by in depth – “how I got there” stuff.)
1. How can I adjust doors to accommodate end of dash pad and pillar rubber?
2. What is the correct size for “point A” bolt I need to shim to close gap at top and rear of door?
3. How can I get the bolt into that spot when holes don’t quite line up?
4. Where exactly is “point B” bolt I need to loosen before I shim “point A”?
5. Can I really close a half inch gap with a few mm of shim? There has to be some limit. What is the gap difference between the top and bottom?
1. Now that the doors don’t sag, the rubber AND dash end get in the way of the door closing. Door stops about 3 inches from closing. I can close it if I push really hard,You need to stop that or there will definitely be problems but I can’t imagine that constant pressure (and it is a lot) is good for the new hinges. There just doesn’t seem to be enough room between door and post to accommodate all that rubber and dash end. Should the dash be trimmed? See photo. Does it extend too far out to the left? Should it be trimmed where that line in the mold is? If I do that, the door will still come into contact with the piece that remains. Should I trim material off the back of that dash flap, so there isn’t so much material to compress? I imagine some day that end would fall apart if I chose this option, depending on how much I trim. Only other option I can imagine is putting shims behind the hinges, but the gap is perfect on the outside between door and fender. Funny thing is gap is same on passenger side but rubber and dash don’t cause as much of a problem. I still need to push but only the last inch.
2. Gap at back of driver’s door gets wider at top. I read posts on adjusting gap using shims at point A. (Bottom is correct, but top is ˝ inch gap – much too wide.) I took off the rear tire to shim away and…(see photo to see my problem.) The bolt isn’t even there! Worst suspicion as to why confirmed when I tried to drop a bolt in there. The holes don’t quite line up. The red section would need to move a couple mm out or the black bracket a couple in to drop a bolt in there. (BTW anyone sure of that bolt size, I tried an M10 – 1.5 with a 17mm head…correct pitch?) Just for kicks I checked passenger side and found bolt missing as well. That side is just the opposite, black bracket needs to come out or red section in a few mm. Is there any way at all with basic tools to make those holes line up or do I need to go to a bodyshop and get frame pullers involved? Also, where in the world is the “point B” bolt I need to loosen? Diagram is nebulous. It appears to be near the spring plate cover, but that’s as close as I can get.
3. Finally, assuming I get bolts in the point A spots and close the gap at the door, will my top still close properly? Won’t the left side be too far forward since I’m only bringing the left side up to close the gap? Is it only point A that gets the shim or is it point B as well?
…I just wanted doors that didn’t sag…
You defiantly have some alignment problems, I wonder if you can loosen
all the pan bolts underneath, then take a drift pin and align those rear
holes back up.
Look, Mom, no bolt! How can I get one in there if it's a couple mm off? Can I loosen/adjust something with basic tools or do I need jaws of life?
When I adjusted my door gap that is the bolt (picture below)
that I loosened, what it did if anything, I haven't a clue, but I did loosen
and retightened after I adjusted the gap.. There should be a 17mm pad
http://www.karmannghia.com/products.asp?strMasterCat=1075&strYear=&strBodyType=
that goes between the body and frame at point A in the above picture
Is this the point B bolt? yes |
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| hpw |
Mon Sep 01, 2008 6:56 pm |
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Also I did end up using a shim(gasket material) under a hinge or two, just
so I could tweak it that much more. |
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| richardsxfile |
Mon Sep 01, 2008 7:10 pm |
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hpw - door gap is a few mm at bottom, 1/2 an inch at top.
hpw quotes: There should be a 17mm pad
that goes between the body and frame at point A in the above picture
17 mm between?!? The VW look Listen Do it Better advises adding a 3mm shim in there, that's on top of a 17mm "stock" pad? (I see the KGPR pad - how I can cram it in there, I don't know.)
If I may use your pic from a previous post, is that a grommet or washer between the bolt and the body?
So, I may need 20+ mm of pad in there to close the gap?
Plus, if I add a 17mm pad to the passenger side, won't that close the gap at the top of the door which is already uniform and perfect on that side? |
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| MRRAGPICKER |
Mon Sep 01, 2008 7:38 pm |
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The bolt "point B" is inside the car. It is under both rear seat side areas.
On the flat metal areas on each side of the rear seat( the part that is level with the seat) there are holes close to the rear wheels. You have to put a socket on an extension to reach through those hole to get to bolt "B". I think I had to use a long and a short extension together to reach it. |
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| hpw |
Tue Sep 02, 2008 1:31 am |
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richardsxfile wrote: hpw - door gap is a few mm at bottom, 1/2 an inch at top.
hpw quotes: There should be a 17mm pad
that goes between the body and frame at point A in the above picture
17 mm between?!? The VW look Listen Do it Better advises adding a 3mm shim in there, that's on top of a 17mm "stock" pad? (I see the KGPR pad - how I can cram it in there, I don't know.)
If I may use your pic from a previous post, is that a grommet or washer between the bolt and the body?
That is what is left of the original pad and has since been replaced with
metal shims to get the appropiate gap, as I didn't have the correct "pad"
So, I may need 20+ mm of pad in there to close the gap?
You won't know until you start shimming
Plus, if I add a 17mm pad to the passenger side, won't that close the gap at the top of the door which is already uniform and perfect on that side?
If you are talking about the hinge side iit didn't affect that edge only the strike side
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| hpw |
Tue Sep 02, 2008 1:32 am |
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MRRAGPICKER wrote: The bolt "point B" is inside the car. It is under both rear seat side areas.
On the flat metal areas on each side of the rear seat( the part that is level with the seat) there are holes close to the rear wheels. You have to put a socket on an extension to reach through those hole to get to bolt "B". I think I had to use a long and a short extension together to reach it.
thanks for the clarification, I will have to look again at where you are talking
about |
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| hpw |
Thu Sep 04, 2008 7:17 am |
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| richardsxfile did you get any thing resolved :?: or still trying to get answers |
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| richardsxfile |
Thu Sep 04, 2008 9:41 am |
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HPW,
Thanks for asking! I haven't been able to get to it this week as I am a H.S. teacher and school just started, but I hope to get back at it this weekend. Having never taken a ghia body off its pan, I was hoping there'd be a few magic bolts to loosen to align those holes. I understand what you are saying about loosening the pan bolts and trying to use a drift pin; I just can't really imagine the body moving easily where I need it to go. It's certainly worth a shot, I mean, SOMETHING has to be loosened to align those holes. I'm just worried that some previous accident is preventing that from happening.
This weekend I also plan to look for point B under the seat as MRRAGPICKER suggested.
Finally, the dash in my 67 is actually for a 68-69. Does a 67 dash extend out as far behind where the door is trying to close? If I take out the pillar seal and dash, the driver's door closes perfectly - except for the 1/2 gap at top rear of door which I am trying to close.
Does anyone have a photo of a 67 dash (I guess 64-67) that shows how the end should look where it meets the door? Here's what mine is doing. (see photo)
I actually have a grab handle and I want to buy the correct dash so I can attach it, I'm just worried I will still have the same "dash in the way" problem.
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| hpw |
Thu Sep 04, 2008 9:48 am |
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Well good deal, keep us posted.......also I have never taken a body off a pan
either, so I can imagine that it would be pretty "stuck" even after loosening
everything up.
Can't really help on the dash as mine
isn't even close to being stock. |
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| gecko@revolks.com |
Thu Sep 04, 2008 12:30 pm |
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There are 10 major body-to-chassis bolts in addition to all the pan bolts that would need to be loosened in order for you to shimmy the body around enough to help create better alignment of those two rear main shock tower bolts.
All of the main bolts are M10 or M12 with 17mm hex heads.
The two you can't seem to find are here:
That is a cabrio rear half so if you have a coupe, the rear seat deck metal is slightly smaller but same place for that bolt's location which secures the body to the outboard end of the rear torsion tube that is just above and inboard from the picture of the outermost rear lateral support pan bolt you pictured above. (ie: look at the rear torsion cover plate, look above it and toward the inside of the body about 2 inches...)
All of that door jam alignment along the B-pillar is probably caused by the lack of or deteriorated condition of the rear shock pads.
Remember that these cars were hand built and so even the "stock" part listed in any catalogue can be off or need some modification to get perfect fit. Even the men in the Karmann factory made shim modifications to various points of the car.
Bottom line however is that if your Ghia has not been in an accident causing door damage or A-pillar damage then the only place you can adjust that B-pillar alignment is at those four rear shock pads.
Main M10 bolt locations (front to rear):
2 - under gas tank from body to front beam
4 - 2 at each end of the forward lateral support (outside, look up at pan)
2 - under rear seat, down into outboard ends of rear torsion tubes
2 - rear shock towers, seen when rear wheels are off.
The rest of the pan bolts will have to be loosened if not removed but try only loosening them at first.
The body will have compressed the pan seal enough to make it seem like the two (body and chassis) are still glued together. Thus, if you can remove all of the rear M10 bolts or back them entirely out but for a few threads, then you can usually use a heavy pry bar and carefully lift-up on the body right THERE where the rear M10 bolting locations are (using the chassis' shock tower support for prying against the body).
Once you have the body free somewhat from the pan seal, you'll probably by able to "scootch" the body over a bit this way or that.
I recommend you try first dropping an appropriate sized phillips bit screwdriver into those two holes and then as you pry-up on the body a bit you can use the thicker screwdriver (ie: #4 phillips screwdriver shaft) to also pry the body over for better fastener alignment.
Incidentally, you might just find that as you lift up on the rear of the body (you or a helper will no doubt see the door jam gap close-up at the top of the B-pillar at the door seam as you do this), that the bolt in question - top of the rear shock tower - suddenly fits better without being eclipsed as it is now.
That one picture you took of the pan bolt you thought was "B" or whatever, is actually one of those pan bolts unique to the Ghia. The Beetle doesn't have those pan bolts... It's only because the Ghia is wider bodied that it has a wider rear lateral support and thus, those extra pan bolts :) - keep reminding yourself -"THIS car was HAND BUILT"... schtuff just takes more patience and often somethings are going to be different from any book or manual that has to put everything into nice neat charts for ease of use.
Oh yeah.. one more thing Teach' - wear protective gloves and eyewear while doing any of these things since your knuckles may get rashed on sharp body edges and if any pry bars or pry-screwdrivers decide to break, you want your eyes safe from flying metal shards - ask yourself why I KNOW this :cry:
Oops... PS: the dash edge should not need trimming at all. It may be "snug" when the doors close but nothing rediculously tough that needs more than one hand to close the door easily.
If you are still experiencing that kind of tight fitting at the A-pillar then adjusting the rear is going to do nothing.. the rear will only solve the B-pillar gap.
You might have to open the door wide as you can and carefully/critically look at the hinge mounts TO the door. They could be crushed in or distorted - like when the door opens in really high winds - you know like when you go out for a Sunday cruise and .. oh.. I dunno... a HURRICANE suddenly appears! :shock:
Check your A-pillar hinge mounts for similar distortions...
This sort of problem is more common to the Beetle but it happens on the Ghia too since those doors weigh like a baby elephant (well it seems like it to my ol' body when I have to remove them myself).
If you find hinge mount distortion, you can buy actual automotive shims of various thicknesses. They look sorta like "U" shaped flat washers... Although even normal flat washers can be substituted - look critically at the edges of M10 flat washers at your local home hardware or FLAPS and you'll notice that the washers tend to have various thicknesses even when the exact same washer bin... pick and choose a varied selection to help since even the smallest mm's difference AT the hinge can make tens of cm's of difference AT the striker plate. |
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| hpw |
Thu Sep 04, 2008 1:28 pm |
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That is a great picture, we need to save that in the 'vert gallery
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| richardsxfile |
Thu Sep 04, 2008 3:06 pm |
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Jeff,
Thanks for the amazingly thorough resonse. The only part I am unclear on is "the only place you can adjust that B-pillar alignment is at those FOUR rear shock pads." I know about the pads that go between the mounts behind the wheels. Where are the other two? Are pads/shims required at the points under the rear seat you illustrate or are those just bolts to loosen to move the body?
I hope when I loosen all the body bolts, I can adjust the hole alignment at point A and still get all the body bolts back in!
Another concern is that passenger door is perfect in every way at the moment even though bolt is missing at point A on that side. The gap around passenger door is even all around and it closes perfectly. I hope adding pads and bolts doesn't throw that side off, though I feel like I'm going to have to give something up on that side to improve the left. Just adding the pad to that side (which it should have) should close the gap a little at top of passenger door - but I don't want it to. |
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| hpw |
Thu Sep 04, 2008 3:33 pm |
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richardsxfile wrote: Jeff,
Thanks for the amazingly thorough resonse. The only part I am unclear on is "the only place you can adjust that B-pillar alignment is at those FOUR rear shock pads." I know about the pads that go between the mounts behind the wheels. Where are the other two? Are pads/shims required at the points under the rear seat you illustrate or are those just bolts to loosen to move the body?
I hope when I loosen all the body bolts, I can adjust the hole alignment at point A and still get all the body bolts back in! don't take them out, just back them out so that only a couple of threads are holding.
Another concern is that passenger door is perfect in every way at the moment even though bolt is missing at point A on that side. The gap around passenger door is even all around and it closes perfectly. I hope adding pads and bolts doesn't throw that side off, Then leave that side alone or just add a gasket to have a slight cushion though I feel like I'm going to have to give something up on that side to improve the left. Just adding the pad to that side (which it should have) should close the gap a little at top of passenger door - but I don't want it to.
I may be wrong but I would think the left side should act independently of the right side |
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| hpw |
Thu Sep 04, 2008 3:35 pm |
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Quote: Are pads/shims required at the points under the rear seat you illustrate or are those just bolts to loosen to move the body?
That is a great question, didn't even think that pads would go there.
Does anyone know the answer :?: |
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| gecko@revolks.com |
Thu Sep 04, 2008 4:35 pm |
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Yes. Just like the shock tower mounts, there are also shock pads or those rubber square biscuits with holes in the middle under the rear seat mounting bolts shown in the picture...
To help with understanding this, think about the body sitting perfectly flat on the shop floor on it's heater channel / rockers.
What you are basically doing with those shock pads and potentially spacer washers is torquing or flexing the body upwards in the rear half by shimming-up the body at those four mounting locations. This basically causes the body to flex a tiny bit forward, directly at the base of the B-pillars which in-turn closes up the large gap you see at the top of the doors or just door if it's only on one side...
Given your passenger side is good, then you should only / may only need to concern yourself with the driver side mounts - that would be two of them - 1 at the known shock tower and the other at the torsion tube mount (below that bolt location I showed in the picture).
This secondary one is sandwiched between the body and chassis there so it's a booger to get to and frankly you'll need to be able to pry-up the body at the rear shock tower area in order to slip the new shock pad and or spacer washers into that area - watch your fingers as you slip these shock pads into place on the rear torsion tube since you are basically holding the body's weight up with a pry bar... Be careful not sorry!
Whenever I begin to reassemble a Vdub (Beetle or Ghia for this matter) I always use a few larger shaft screwdrivers and or punches to help with getting and then keeping all these main body-to-chassis holes aligned. Of course having a helper makes things much easier to since they can watch the body and chassis holes align, even having the associated bolt ready to thread into position even if only a bit so as to maintain it's position until you get to all the other body and pan bolts started.
Frankly, I would give your doors and in general the whole front-end inside the trunk too a good peek to ensure you do not in fact have some body part tweaked (a previous owner's parking lot "oops" could have caused this). The point being that while you should have at least those rubber shock pads at all four points in the rear and at the front beam below the fuel tank; none of this is useful if the body has been tweaked sufficiently. Remember to look critically at the door and A-pillar hinge mounting areas to ensure they are not crushed or tweaked causing the hinges to close-up too much and thereby squishing the door to the A-pillar...
Let me know (email me even) if this didn't make sense.. it is kinda' tough to explain.
PS:
As with any hardware/fastener... begin the job a few days beforehand by spraying the bolts with PB Oil or Liquid Wrench or whatever penetrating oil you prefer... I am so dead serious when I say a can of that schtuff is worth hours of needless pain, agony and anguish on the day you actually try to spin the bolts... They've been there now for what? 30 odd years? They're going to be rusty and reluctant so help yourself to prevent shearing-off difficult to reach bolts by getting them ready as far in advance as possible... Once in the morning (on your way to work) and another at night (on your way into your home) for the week prior is usually great for this... Also, LISTEN to the bolts when attempt to remove them.. If they "squeek" at all... they're telling you something - they're dirty/rusty and not wanting to release - spray more oil, drive them in a quarter turn, spray more oil, drive them out a 1/3 turn and keep working them with lots of oil.. NOTHING is more aggrevating than shearing off a big bolt that will have to be drilled-out and then re-tapped for a new one later... |
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| Ian Godfrey |
Thu Sep 04, 2008 7:08 pm |
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On '69 not all cars had the pads between the body and the torsion at the place under the back seat. This may be the same for other years!! Some cars have the hole filled with seam sealer from the factory. I cleaned it off and the hole was there in the body and the threaded hole was below. So i added the bolts and pads. This gave me the other point of leaverage to help get the doors right. Ie. as you add shim at the bolts under the back wheel the body need to be held by the bolts under the rear seat and vise a versa.
For the shim between the body and the cast shock mount the factory folk used different hard materials, compressed hard board or a plastic material or thin metal to adjust the space (not rubber). Under the head of the bolt there should be a special thick washer (you can see it in one of the pix) On my '69's the shim thickness is about 4 mm.
Under the rear seat between the body and torsion the shim was about 10mm. Another 2 person job, one under the car to position the shim, one in the car with the bolt and a panel washer.
With regard to the dash pad. Some pads are a bit too thick at the point where they are between the door and the pillar. Sadly I don't have a solution, just the observation. The dash pads from 'Karmann Ghia Co of Australia' are fairly thin in this area. Others may have more solutions.
I hope this all sheds a bit more light on the issues
good luck
Ian G |
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| richardsxfile |
Sat Sep 06, 2008 6:24 pm |
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Hi all, here’s an update since I had a chance today to attack the shock towers. I really appreciate the photos and walkthrough for this job; they helped tremendously.
I was able to loosen all the chassis and pan bolts (except for the ones under the fuel tank; I was hoping those were far enough forward that I could move the rear the couple mm I needed to without removing the fuel tank – it worked!) and with my brute strength and crowbar I pushed the rubber pads in and got the bolts through.
I was able to locate where the point B bolts should have been. Unfortunately, they were missing as well. When I placed the pads at the shock tower I could peek into the gap above and inside the spring cover plate and I found out why – BOTH sides have bolt studs busted nearly flush with the torsion tube mount. Damn! So now I don’t know if what I have done is better than it was before. I mean, the shock tower is correct now, but there is a gap at point B where before it was resting on the torsion tube mount.
I still want to shim the rear shock tower to close the driver’s door gap, but will it have any effect without any bolts at point B? Obviously, the only way I could put bolts in at point B would be to remove the body and drill those studs out. I know that would be the correct thing to do, but I don’t have a place to put the body while I’m drilling those studs out. :cry: (And truthfully, I just wanted to fix saggy doors, not perform a pan off hinge replacement. :D )
I’m considering just wedging the rubber at point B and gluing it in there. Maybe I should make a poll question: would you remove the body to drill out the point B bolts?
As for the rear shims, the only ones I found at FLAPS are metal. Can I slip these between the rubber pad and the shock tower without damaging the current rubber pad, or do I need to find some shims of a different material. I’ve read that various synthetic materials were used. Will metal be fine?
Here’s a victory photo:
And here's current gap at point B:
:D |
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| hpw |
Sun Sep 07, 2008 1:09 am |
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I used metal shims as I didn't have the "pads"
Something that happened to me that I didn't say is the A bolt snapped on
me while attempting to take it out. I was able to drill and tap that hole
without taking the body off.
Now it wasn't a easy job and took a few hours, but I was bound and
determined to not let it defeat me. That is one thing these cars will test and
that is how much patience you have or not.
I haven't seen bolt B so I don't know if its possible to drill and tap it, but I
would make an attempt and if not I would loosen bolt A and wedge something
a 1/16" thicker in there than re tighten bolt A and call it good until you can
take the body off. |
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| gecko@revolks.com |
Sun Sep 07, 2008 6:22 pm |
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Hello Richard,
I got your IM and started to reply but it quickly became a book so I bailed on it. I would just email you but don't know it so...
Everyone else:
Unless you really are this interested in difficult problems I'd say click "next" now! Otherwise, get your coffee, tea or beer and read along :lol:
Yeah, I read with dismay your findings on the "B" bolt earlier today and looked at the pictures you posted... I've pondered this for a while trying to figure out how you could get around this AND whether or not it would be of any use.
The thing I keep coming back to is this:
- when you installed the rubber shock pad and or shims you wish to use at the DS shock tower mount, it's lifting up on the torsion mount location an equal distance to the shock tower's shimmed state, therefore you are not getting the "flex" that would hopefully solve the door jam gap problem on the DSide correct?
This makes me wonder how or if the passenger side was affected during this? I mean, I can only assume that it did not change either - ie: the gap on the PS door is still as it was before too and thus - no gapping problems on the PS have been created now right?
So.... (and while this is strictly from thinking of the problem logically, not based upon a similar experience ...) I think it would seem that those torsion housing bolts (B bolts) are bascially the point from which the body must be flexed forward in order to cause the top of the B-pillar to move forward to the door and correct the gapping issue.
EDIT:
Doh!
You DID tighten down all the other chassis bolts before this picture right? I mean, the front laterals, pans, etc are tightened again and still you have this photographed gapping right???
END EDIT
That said, (and since they are sheared off) I wonder if in fact there might not be something else at issue that is presently unknown or undiscovered? Failing this as the explanation (ie: like we talked about perhaps the top hinge mount - A-pillar or on the door itself being distorted or crushed and creating the one-side-only misalignment) then you MUST somehow install those "B" bolts through the body into the torsion housing mount point in order to (effectively) pull the body downward nearer the cabin floor while the shock tower mount remains raised up as it is now to cause this flex that is needed to solve the door gap.
With me so far?
So.... more pondering and I am still not able to solve how you might get those bolts installed without drilling-out the old ones and then (experience has shown me) you'll likely have to re-tap the torsion housing receivers to the next size up bolt since it's rare that they are drilled-out perfectly (drill bit wonders through an inch of bolt drilling et cetera) so a simple "re-tap" of the same M10x1.50 might be possible. In the past I have done this on Ghias specifically, so I always painted the "upsized" bolt RED so anyone else in the distant future would easily see that "this" bolt is somehow unique (the threading being larger) and no longer stock..
BUT
I have always done this work (drillout and re-tap the receiver) with the body off because it's about impossible to access that location otherwise on the Ghia due to that rear seat shelf... The Beetle by comparison is relatively easy - remove the rear seat and seat back and voila it's right there.. start drilling/tapping.
So I started getting creative with the question:
How else could you effectively pull-down on the B-bolt location (simulating the bolt being tightened down there) to see if this will in fact correct the one-side door alignment problem?
The only solutions I could come up with are definitely non-stock approaches and would require modifications to the body in some form or other just to test that it solves the problem.
I thought of perhaps making use of a wratchet strap (900 lb size should more than suffice) to clamp-on to the body, wrap around the torsion tube and then clamp onto the body again and tighten (this would pull the body downward at the torsion tube right?)
At least with this approach, you'd have the chance to see first if this bolt will solve the alignment issue before having to do anything else that may be more involved - like having to ultimately remove the body from the chassis for drilling/tapping the receiver.
Another "creative" way I could think of is to make use of some form of an L or J hook that has machine screw/threading on the straight end... The location that the sheared-off bolt occupies currently is more or less like a square bracket cast into the torsion tube. It might be possible to hook onto below this bracket/tab and drill a new hole next to the existing one in the body for the L or J hook to pass through to install a new fastener and larger thrust washer.
This approach could even be extended to maybe use some form of large U clamp - like we're talking industrial sized thing since the torsion tube is easily 4" in diameter...
Whatever the case, I ultimately believe two things:
- you should first off, critically look at the door pillars, door, hinges and generally the whole front quarter to ensure first you are not trying to solve a problem associated with distortion of the A-pillar area rather than correcting a body that has sagged in the rear...
- the body will ultimately have to come off the chassis in order to solve the sheared-off bolts in the torsion housing in any stock-like manner.
Unlike hpw's experience (applaus to him BTW... sometimes endurance and "guts" is what it takes! kudo's to you mein herr!) I do not believe you can solve this particular location with the body in place... even if all you do is winch or jack-up the body off the chassis 2' (or room enough to get a drill standing on a bit there) as the receiver is blind from below so you can drill it out from under it either :( and once again, I'm not convinced this is the resolution to that particular problem yet without knowing first you are convinced the front area is not somehow "different" from DSide to PSide...
Whew!
Cigarette break in order now... :lol: |
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