TheSamba.com :: View topic - 2wd Lift Springs/ Lifting your van in general

Tue Aug 25, 2009 8:55 am

mathieux46 wrote: I just finished installing moog 5660 on my 2wd van. I have Napa shocks not sure of the model but they're yellow and they costed about 60$ each. I tought it could be helpfull to post since I don't use Koni shocks. I have 205/65R15 Michelin Agilis tire.

I have a Hiroof so, the original front spring were too soft. The ride now is great, it's a lot more firm and I can handle curves like I never did with my van ( and with any vanagon btw! ). It really improved the handling, feels like driving a GLI!

My van was at 15.75 in before and now I'm sitting at 17.25 in.

Thanks a lot Presslab!!! Now I need bigger brakes!

Mat
'87 2wd EJ22

Hi Mat, I'm glad they worked well for you! I think you saw my posts about the Audi front brakes too; I am really pleased with them, they have been working great.

Ryan

Tue Aug 25, 2009 3:48 pm

Hey Paul,

The spring fitted tight but good in the rubber cup. I used electrical tape to hold the rubber cup to the spring to ease up installation. I had some difficulties to fit the rubber cup ( with spring ) in the passenger side of the van, I used soap to help the rubber slide in the steel cup in the van.

One of the best mod for the price!

Hey Ryan,

I went to the salvage yard today to pick up G60 caliper and Audi 5000 turbo rear caliper and rear rotor + 4 mags for a total of 100$, not bad.

Now see you in your post because they are 15''x6 ET45.

Mat

Tue Sep 08, 2009 10:14 am

I went camping this weekend, Westy loaded pretty good and my new tires (215/70/16) were rubbing on the front fender lip under hard braking. So I attempted the moog spring swap again. I ordered the Moog 5658's. This time, Amazon sent me the correct springs - $64 total for the set with free shipping.
Installed the springs yesterday - hoping to eliminate the nose from diving so hard under braking. The springs went in fairly smoothly. I only had time for a quick trip around the neighborhood, but they felt much stiffer with out being too stiff. I slammed the brakes on a couple of times and never rubbed. The seat of the pants feel was like the nose diving was cut in half - from 4" dive to a 2" dive - I will try to get some actual measurements of how much dive was eliminated.

The spec's are:
Wire dia: 0.687
Load Rate: 1405 lbs
Spring rate: 530 in/lbs
Free height: 13.35
Fender Lip to hub center: 17.25" some settling should occur with some miles.

I will measure the spring rate of the stock westy springs - I belive they will be in the 300 - 350 in/lb range.

I think these will work fine - going through a curvy road, I felt way less lean. These are mated to bilstien HD's - I wish I had the Koni Red Adjustables though - I think you could really dial in the rebound to match the paticular spring you choose.

Paul

Wed Sep 09, 2009 7:57 am

That's awesome Paul, I'm glad you finally received the springs you wanted.

A long time ago I had rubbing too from my 215-75-15, and I put a 3/4" thick rubber bushing around the shock shaft to decrease the travel. It worked great and it's still on there, although I suspect with my stiff springs I rarely bottom it out now.

Thu Sep 10, 2009 1:13 pm

hi there, ive got severely collapsed springs and its limiting my ability to travel in south america. the only option i ca afford so far is to have springs made in argentina; however, i'll need the specs for that. if anyone could provide me with technical data for 2wd high lift springs or equivilent it would be a huge help. ideally id need:
-bar thickness
-number of coils
-space between coils
-overall height uninstalled
-inside diameter

thanks a bundle

Thu Sep 10, 2009 5:28 pm

Here are the specs for the Moog 5660 springs, maybe it helps you:

4.08" ID, 0.718" wire, 598 lbs/in, 13.26" free length

Thu Sep 10, 2009 5:31 pm

southboundexplorers wrote: hi there, ive got severely collapsed springs and its limiting my ability to travel in south america. the only option i ca afford so far is to have springs made in argentina; however, i'll need the specs for that. if anyone could provide me with technical data for 2wd high lift springs or equivilent it would be a huge help. ideally id need:
-bar thickness
-number of coils
-space between coils
-overall height uninstalled
-inside diameter

thanks a bundle I have some rear ones I would like to sale.
450lb or 500lb set

Sun Sep 27, 2009 4:24 pm

Hey Presslab

After a week or two of driving with the Moog 5660 with napa regular shocks, I think it's a bit harsh on rough roads. Il live in Quebec, Canada and we have very bad road sometimes.

Could the fact that I'm running 205/65/15 agilis ( instead of 215/75/15 ) be a cause of the harsness?

I wondering if I switch to Koni shocks I would remove the harshness a bit?

Btw, I just finished installing my girling 60 fronts brakes, wow what a difference!

Thanks

Mat

Sun Sep 27, 2009 4:34 pm

Mat,
I don't know about the napa shocks, but I found the Bilstiens did not control the rebound enough with the stiffer springs (moog 5658) I installed Koni's and now find the ride excellent for the westy. So far I am using a setting of about 2.5 out of 5 (counting 1/2 turns).

Paul

Sun Sep 27, 2009 5:54 pm

Hey Paul,
Glad to hear the Koni's got you set up. I finally got my go westy lift springs in and feel like the shocks don't quite have enough rebound either but I think the koni's are too short so I'll just have to live it. The ride is sweet, I'm just a little picky.

On a side note I have regular upper ball joints with the rubber boots that were totally fine and now the GW springs ruined them as when the front is off the ground the springs rub the boots and tear them. Kinda frustrating as that the info was not mentioned when I bought the springs, and when my shop called GW they were like oh just get the new joints they don't rub. So anyone planning to get the GW lift springs should plan to change the upper ball joints when your in there if you have the old style boots.

Kevin

Sun Sep 27, 2009 7:21 pm

Quote: I finally got my go westy lift springs in and feel like the shocks don't quite have enough rebound either but I think the koni's are too short so I'll just have to live it. The ride is sweet, I'm just a little picky.

Has anyone confirmed that the Koni's are too short for the GW set up? I've seen it posted, perhaps even perpetuated the rumor, but if I remember correctly, the Konis and Bilsteins are almost identical in length both extended and compressed.

If that is truly the case, then the GW springs and Koni shocks sound like a stellar combination!

Sun Sep 27, 2009 10:14 pm

I'll admit I did not try them just going off what I read. But I would be really happy if I could get them as the fronts need more rebound for big dips in city streets.

Mon Sep 28, 2009 8:09 am

I just ordered Koni's for the front. I will post result I soon as I install them.

Fri Oct 02, 2009 4:24 pm

It was driving me crazy not knowing, so I called Koni and Bilstein to get the actual length specs (compressed and extended). They're posted here:

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=4105109#4105109

Tue Nov 03, 2009 4:58 pm

Not to beat a dead horse. I just want to make sure I understand correctly.

By using the MOOG 5660 springs with Bilstein HD's on the front, that will retain (or close to) stock ride height? Or does it increase the height?

1985 Westy by the way.

Tue Nov 03, 2009 8:11 pm

lowdowndub wrote: Not to beat a dead horse. I just want to make sure I understand correctly.

By using the MOOG 5660 springs with Bilstein HD's on the front, that will retain (or close to) stock ride height? Or does it increase the height?

1985 Westy by the way.

If your height is below 17.25 then they will be higher. I know 85's sit higher than most, but with the 5660's you'd be sitting at 17.25 as mathieux46 reported in. So it all depends on where you are at currently.

Sun Jun 13, 2010 6:16 pm

Hi,

Just an update on my '87 2wd, I finally found time to install the koni shock in the front with the Moog 5660 springs. It made a great difference, the napa shock could not hold them on rebound. The koni are at 0.75. The ride is perfect now. You have to get the combo with the koni to really enjoy the set up, otherwise it felt out of control on rebound.

I also changed the rim and tires, I now have some BFG 215/70R16 on 7'' ET42 2006 Audi A4 wheels and equivalent to 12 mm spacers ( 7 mm big brake + 5 mm spacer ), the ride ( and look ! ) is nice. I think that the 205/65R15 agilis I had before were a too small and stiff which made the ride a little to stiff for me. Also to mention that at 17.25 in height, I do have some rubbing with the BFG on the low front fender when supension is fully compressed and wheel turned, but it's not to bad on normal driving ( happened only once or twice on 500 km trip ) but it will be annoting while offroading for sure. The EJ22 seems to work a lot harder with the bigger tire, he must be missing his first life in japan!!!

On the rear I have stock spring, 1'' of cutting board spacer on top and air lift balloons inside the spring at 25 psi with napa shock. It's good, no special comments. Ride is good!! Now I must learn how to post pictures...

Thank again Presslab, you're the man!!!

Mat

Sun Jun 13, 2010 6:47 pm

The rear of the front fender will tend to scrub at full compression with bigger tires whatever you do. You can easly cut it a little bit and no one would notice without looking for it. This is the cut i made on my syncro, quick and dirty in the flaps parking lot. With a little planning and precession it would look much better:

I cut about 1.5 to 2 centimeters in at the bottom to clear 235/75 15 GG AT tires.

Sat Jul 17, 2010 3:07 pm

I just finished thesamba Blue-Light Special Vanagon lift. I decided that GoWesty's upper ball joint spacer kit might be a good idea so I raised the total cost 30% by adding those.

I've only driven it a mile or so, so there's some settling yet to be experienced, but here are the preliminary numbers.

1984 Adventurewagen 2wd

Before:

LF 400 mm RF 395 mm

LR 405 mm RR 400 mm

After:

LF 430 mm RF 435 mm

LR 425 mm RR 420 mm

I don't think that the front is going to settle 10 mm, so it looks like a 10 mm spacer for the rear springs is in my future.

Converted for the SI challenged:

Before:

LF 15.75" RF 15.55"

LR 15.95" RR 15.75"

After:

LF 16.92" RF 17.13"

LR 16.73" RR 16.54"

The front spring rate is about a third higher and so far, I'm liking the tautness. Feels GOOD.

We'll get it aligned Monday then we'll start the 'extended road test.'

Jim

Sat Jul 17, 2010 3:18 pm

Thanks for converting those numbers. :wink:

but, what's the samba blue light special consist of > ?