TheSamba.com :: View topic - Reducing automotive air-conditioning need!?!

Mon Oct 06, 2008 6:10 am

Here's the link to an interesting article I chanced upon recently, whilst surfing the Internet:

'Cool' Car Engineers Test Ventilated Seats And Thermal-Acoustic System To Make A/C Energy-Efficient

http://www.sciencedaily.com/videos/2006/0901-cool_car.htm

« September 1, 2006 - Engineers at a national lab have shown that small fans embedded in car seats could help cool passengers down -- saving up to 7 percent of the 30 to 40 gallons of gasoline per year an average driver consumes for powering air conditioning systems. »

« The average driver uses 30 gallons to 40 gallons of gasoline each year just running the car's air conditioning. That adds up to seven billion gallons of gas annually. At the Department Of Energy's National Renewable Energy Lab, engineers are researching ways to cool the people in the car rather than the entire car. »

« Mechanical engineers at NREL are researching ways to reduce gasoline consumption while increasing passenger comfort. First, solar reflective glass keeps the parked car cooler when passengers first get in. Then, small fans in ventilated seats pull hot air away from the seat's surface. The ventilated seats pull air through your clothing, causing your sweat to evaporate and using the body's natural mechanisms to cool itself. »

« They estimate if all passenger vehicles had ventilated seats alone that would save 7 percent of fuel used for air conditioning. And reducing the amount of fuel used for AC by 7 percent a year would save 522 million gallons of gasoline a year in the United States. »

The Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers, Inc., contributed to the information contained in the TV portion of this report.

Note: This story and accompanying video were originally produced for the American Institute of Physics series Discoveries and Breakthroughs in Science by Ivanhoe Broadcast News

http://www.aip.org/dbis/

« Discoveries and Breakthroughs Inside Science provides twelve 90-second reports (in both English and Spanish) for subscribing local TV newscasts all over the United States. Accurate, scientifically reviewed and reliable, DBIS brings the latest science, engineering, math and technology news to a general audience that is underserved with quality science reporting. »

« Supported by a coalition of scientific and engineering professional societies and a generous contribution from the National Science Foundation, DBIS promotes awareness of and appreciation for the role science, technology, engineering and mathematics professionals play in our daily lives. »

Mon Oct 06, 2008 6:18 am

Ok, so I use 40 gallons a year to run the AC. this will save me 7% or 2.8 gallons. Gas is now costing me around $3.75 a gallon. So rounding up to a savings of 3 gallons, this fan in the seat will save me $11.25 a year.

I'm going to have to keep this car a long time to pay for that $700 option.

Wouldn't thier time be better spent trying to figure out how to keep tires inflated? Or how to rid the highways of Escalades with just one occupant?

Mon Oct 06, 2008 6:52 am

drscope wrote: Ok, so I use 40 gallons a year to run the AC. this will save me 7% or 2.8 gallons. Gas is now costing me around $3.75 a gallon. So rounding up to a savings of 3 gallons, this fan in the seat will save me $11.25 a year.

I'm going to have to keep this car a long time to pay for that $700 option.

Wouldn't their time be better spent trying to figure out how to keep tires inflated? Or how to rid the highways of Escalades with just one occupant?

I believe their intention wasn't just to increase vehicle fuel-use efficiency, but also to improve driver and occupant comfort, by increasing the effectiveness of the overall air-conditioning system.

That's extremely cheap for gasoline, at the moment, but in the not too distant future, it's likely to become much more expensive and/or rationed! How does US$37·50 per US gallon appeal to you!?! According to one article I've read, it's quite an effective means of combatting the increasing obesity problem.

Leonard Doyle, "Rising petrol prices could force obese Americans to hit the street", The Independent, Thursday, 13th September 2007.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/r...02197.html

« For overweight Americans relief is on the way, in the shape of ever-higher petrol prices. Getting out the car to drive downtown for a super-sized plate full of fatty fast-food is the highlight of the day for many Americans. The result is a public health crisis with four out of 10 American adults already overweight or heading that way. »

« After consuming mountains of chips, fried meat and baked goods all washed down with corn-sweetened soft drinks, overweight Americans then worry which best-selling diet book will help them see their toes again. It turns out that higher petrol prices can slim down more than the wallets of the overweight. »

« The ever-rising cost of filling up their cars is prompting millions of Americans to pack their own lunch and walk to the bus. The statistics are dramatic: they show that when petrol prices have risen in the US, obesity has shown a corresponding fall of as much as 10 per cent according to a new study, A Silver Lining? The Connection between Gas Prices and Obesity..... »

Keeping one's vehicle properly maintained, isn't "rocket science", including checking tyre pressures at least once per week and before each long journey. Besides that, I believe that all modern North American cars, now feature mandatory real-time tyre-pressure monitoring systems and that similar after-market systems are available for retro-fitment.

I wouldn't recognise an Escalade if I saw one! Is it some strange North American gasoline-guzzling model, which manages less than 35~40 mpg? The easy way to inhibit low-occupancy vehicle use, is to set road-use pricing, which decreases as occupancy levels increase! :)

Mon Oct 06, 2008 7:18 am

Another book educated bean counter without common sense.

Mon Oct 06, 2008 7:35 am

NASkeet wrote: Besides that, I believe that all modern North American cars, now feature mandatory real-time tyre-pressure monitoring systems and that similar after-market systems are available for retro-fitment.

I wouldn't recognise an Escalade if I saw one! Is it some strange North American gasoline-guzzling model, which manages less than 35~40 mpg? The easy way to inhibit low-occupancy vehicle use, is to set road-use pricing, which decreases as occupancy levels increase! :)

Tire pressure monitoring standard? I hadn't heard of that, but my newest vehicle is 8 years old, so maybe. A regular Escalade gets like, what 8-12mpg or something? I think there is a hybrid version coming that will get 20mpg highway?

Road use pricing? Hah! No chance in hell over here.

Mon Oct 06, 2008 1:11 pm

ubercrap wrote: ......... is to set road-use pricing, which decreases as occupancy levels increase! :)

Road use pricing? Hah! No chance in hell over here.[/quote]

Ok,
Don't be so quick to say Never!!
Never say Never.
When I was a kid in school in the 50's and 60's they told us that one day we would all be PAYING for Television!
Our little heads knocked this concept around and could not come up with a way to make us pay for something that we pulled off the air waves for free!
Little did we know or even conceive of a Cable to bring TV to one's house or a Satellite (sputnik was a new and worthless experiment at the time) beaming down TV shows to our roof tops.

Another example of technology taking our money....
Car tolls, easy to beat, but an East Coast thing. No one ever dreamed of video cameras recording you running a toll booth.
EZ Pass, was not even a concept and we could never envision the ability to give the a highway commission money without having any money or even stopping to pay someone! Paying a toll at 65 MPH was unimaginable!
Today I do it on a semi regular basis and I pay for TV.

Don't be too cocky that your car registration isn't going to end up with a one person surcharge someday because some yet to be implemented piece of wireless technology tells the state that you drive 60% of your time with the passenger seat empty and your driving habits are only yielding 14 MPG's!
Can you say OnStar? The technology is already in many GM cars.
Big brother is watching and he will be taking your money!

Dave

Mon Oct 06, 2008 1:22 pm

none of my vehicles have air conditioning.

Mon Oct 06, 2008 1:27 pm

hazetguy wrote: none of my vehicles have air conditioning.

Nor do mine. I'm strictly 2-60.

Mon Oct 06, 2008 1:28 pm

djkeev wrote:
Ok,
Don't be so quick to say Never!!
Never say Never.
When I was a kid in school in the 50's and 60's they told us that one day we would all be PAYING for Television!
...

Today I do it on a semi regular basis and I pay for TV.

Kill your TV. Why pay for the garbage. I've never paid to watch it.

Mon Oct 06, 2008 1:47 pm

notchback wrote: djkeev wrote:
Ok,
Don't be so quick to say Never!!
Never say Never.
When I was a kid in school in the 50's and 60's they told us that one day we would all be PAYING for Television!
...

Today I do it on a semi regular basis and I pay for TV.

Kill your TV. Why pay for the garbage. I've never paid to watch it.

Well bully for you, I guess you are superior to the vast majority of Americans and citizens of the world at large.
You've missed out on a lot of good stuff over the years. It isn't all garbage.

Dave

Mon Oct 06, 2008 5:54 pm

hazetguy wrote: none of my vehicles have air conditioning. I rarely use the A/C when I have a vehicle equipped as such. I use 2/75 air.

Tue Oct 07, 2008 1:11 am

Reducing automotive air-conditioning need!?!

This Wednesday will probably be our last 100 degree day this year. It will be the 107 day of triple digit this summer. So the need for A/C is over until next April. Although whether we needed it or not very few of our bugs and busses have it anyway. If they did, it wouldn't be something you would want to overload your engine with when it's 110 or 118. On our hottest days there are many traffic problems with stalled cars (new cars- water cooled). The news will report that tow trucks are not available and they are backed up for hours. And then the news advises prevention of stalling by turning off A/C and turning on the heater to pull heat out of the engines.

Tue Oct 07, 2008 6:07 am

George Evans wrote: Another book educated bean counter without common sense.

If I'm not mistaken, the term "bean counter" is vernacular for an accountant, who as a profession are said to "know the cost of everything and the value of nothing".

djkeev wrote: ubercrap wrote: ......... is to set road-use pricing, which decreases as occupancy levels increase! :)

Road use pricing? Hah! No chance in hell over here.

Ok,
Don't be so quick to say Never!!
Never say Never.
When I was a kid in school in the 50's and 60's they told us that one day we would all be PAYING for Television!
Our little heads knocked this concept around and could not come up with a way to make us pay for something that we pulled off the air waves for free!
Little did we know or even conceive of a Cable to bring TV to one's house or a Satellite (sputnik was a new and worthless experiment at the time) beaming down TV shows to our roof tops.

Another example of technology taking our money....
Car tolls, easy to beat, but an East Coast thing. No one ever dreamed of video cameras recording you running a toll booth.
EZ Pass, was not even a concept and we could never envision the ability to give the a highway commission money without having any money or even stopping to pay someone! Paying a toll at 65 MPH was unimaginable!
Today I do it on a semi regular basis and I pay for TV.

Don't be too cocky that your car registration isn't going to end up with a one person surcharge someday because some yet to be implemented piece of wireless technology tells the state that you drive 60% of your time with the passenger seat empty and your driving habits are only yielding 14 MPG's!
Can you say OnStar? The technology is already in many GM cars.
Big brother is watching and he will be taking your money!

Dave

Already in Great Britain (in time, it will probably become European wide), the police have vehicle registration-number recognition cameras, interfaced with a computer database, about whether those vehicles have valid insurance and a valid roadworthiness (i.e. annual MOT inspection) certificate.

If not, you will be pursued and prevented from continuing to drive it from that point onward, until you can convince them that you have valid documentation. If it's not insured and hasn't been issued with a valid MOT certificate, your vehicle is liable to be towed away and crushed!

Mon Oct 27, 2008 8:05 am

ubercrap wrote: NASkeet wrote: Besides that, I believe that all modern North American cars, now feature mandatory real-time tyre-pressure monitoring systems and that similar after-market systems are available for retro-fitment.

I wouldn't recognise an Escalade if I saw one! Is it some strange North American gasoline-guzzling model, which manages less than 35~40 mpg? The easy way to inhibit low-occupancy vehicle use, is to set road-use pricing, which decreases as occupancy levels increase! :)

Tire pressure monitoring standard? I hadn't heard of that, but my newest vehicle is 8 years old, so maybe. A regular Escalade gets like, what 8-12mpg or something? I think there is a hybrid version coming that will get 20mpg highway?

Road use pricing? Hah! No chance in hell over here.

A hybrid car which returns a meagre 20 mpg. I would expect something closer to 50 mpg!

You really ought to read these articles then! :)

Kurt Kleiner, “Infrared 'vision' promises more road tolls”, Cars and Motoring, Special Reports, New Scientist, 30th July 2007.

http://technology.newscientist.com/channel/tech/mo...tolls.html

« A computer vision system that automatically counts the number of people inside a vehicle could make it easier to charge road tolls based upon the number of occupants, and monitor high-occupancy vehicle lanes, researchers say. »

Phil McKenna , “Under-inflated tyres take toll on lives and fuel”, Cars and Motoring, Special Reports, NewScientist, 8th March 2007.

http://technology.newscientist.com/channel/tech/mo...-fuel.html

« A quarter of US citizens are driving cars with severely under-inflated tyres, resulting in hundreds of road fatalities and over a billion gallons of wasted petrol each year...... »

« ..... Starting in September 2007, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) will require auto manufacturers to install tyre pressure monitoring systems in all new vehicles. »

« The ruling was issued in 2002 after more than 250 fatal crashes involving tyre failures in under-inflated Firestone tyres. The new monitors will alert drivers with a dashboard indicator when a tyre falls 25% or more below the recommended pressure..... »

Wed Oct 29, 2008 5:39 am

djkeev wrote: Don't be too cocky that your car registration isn't going to end up with a one person surcharge someday because some yet to be implemented piece of wireless technology tells the state that you drive 60% of your time with the passenger seat empty and your driving habits are only yielding 14 MPG's!
Can you say OnStar? The technology is already in many GM cars.
Big brother is watching and he will be taking your money!

Dave
I believe that. My friends 2009 Toyota Corolla has some weight sensor in the passenger seat that knows if somebody's sitting there and if they're buckled in or not. I have the same buckling sensor in my 2000 Pontiac but only for the driver side. The bad thing is he's in school so when he puts his book bag in the passenger seat the car flips out thinking that someone's sitting there unbuckled!!

Wed Oct 29, 2008 5:56 am

If the car has airbags it has a sensor in the seat that indicates if someone is sitting in it or not. All new cars have sensors mounted in the rims that monitor tire pressuresend it to the main computer in the car. It will be very easy to install a cellular transmitter in the car and report all speeding violations changing lanes without signaling and carpool violations to the police and allow them to shutdown your car if you havent paid tickets or if they are chasing you.
There are congressmen right now lobbying for just this technology to be installed in all new cars.