TheSamba.com :: View topic - 2.0 X-Flow Info?

Tue Oct 14, 2008 7:00 pm

Hello all. I'm a noob to posting, so please forgive the ignorance.

Mainly, I'm hoping other Samba members can point me towards some info on 2.0 ABA X-flow (4 cyl) swap info.

I've been a lurker here for a long while, but am getting more serious in my goal to purchase a watercooled Westy. Given my price range and locale I'd anticipate buying a Westie that would be high mileage, need some bodywork and would likely need an engine replacement anyways.

I'm more of a MK2/MK2 VW person, so I have some familiarity with ABA motors and fuel injection systems of those eras. I'm not into Suby conversions, I'd prefer to stick with VW. I'm pretty mechanically savvy, and I'm patient and willing enough to undertake a conversion right away. I'm a sucker for project VWs, what can I say?!?!?

I'm just having trouble finding links. I've tried searching, but maybe I'm using the wrong terminology.

Any help would be appreciated. I'd like to consider costs of such a conversion, so I have a good game plan.

Tue Oct 14, 2008 8:50 pm

I did a "home brew" install of an OBD1 ABA in my '81 Westy at 15 degrees. There are others with VW gas I4 engines in their Vanagons on this list. There is likely lots of info on this lists archives to help you get started.

Maybe you've tried these terms but search under I4, inline 4, Jetta/Golf, conversion, 50 degree, 50*, swap etc.

Check my sig for a VW gas I4 group I started.

Also check out vanagon .com too. There is info there too.

And the Tiico user group (Yahoo?) may have info that will help.

Are you planning on doing the 50 degree install?

Neil.

Tue Oct 14, 2008 8:52 pm

Even with the diesel-style 50deg mounting position, the ABA intake manifold is probably going to be the biggest sticking point .. sticking into the space where the engine cover is supposed to go. :lol: Sorry, I'm into my third beer tonight and couldn't resist...

I'm sure it could be done, but it'd be much easier to use an ABA/JH hybrid. Use the intake from a Digifant car (late Fox if you want the TB towards the transaxle, Mk2 if you want it aimed at the bumper), use the right injector cups and then it's just a matter of plumbing and wiring .. which you'd have to do anyway. Should all fit under the lid that way.

No idea if a pure ABA swap into a Vanagon has been done or not...

Tue Oct 14, 2008 10:01 pm

Pure ABA swaps have been done but they require the decklid to be raised or modified at both 15˚ and 50˚, because like you said it just doesnt fit otherwise. Its not too big of a deal if it doesnt have the bed in the back or its not a westy, but even if it is you can work around it, by raising the rear seat to match the height of the raised bed/decklid area. In a westy you might also have to cut down the rear cabinet to make it all fit.

Tue Oct 14, 2008 10:04 pm

tristessa wrote: Even with the diesel-style 50deg mounting position, the ABA intake manifold is probably going to be the biggest sticking point .. sticking into the space where the engine cover is supposed to go. :lol: Sorry, I'm into my third beer tonight and couldn't resist...

I'm sure it could be done, but it'd be much easier to use an ABA/JH hybrid. Use the intake from a Digifant car (late Fox if you want the TB towards the transaxle, Mk2 if you want it aimed at the bumper), use the right injector cups and then it's just a matter of plumbing and wiring .. which you'd have to do anyway. Should all fit under the lid that way.

No idea if a pure ABA swap into a Vanagon has been done or not...

Pure ABA into a Vanagon? For sure! I've done it! At 15* 8)

I saw a stock ABA at 50* It does stick out a little.

But yah I agree. Using a different intake etc. or the 1.8 head/engine management on a 2.0 block at 50* is likely the better the way to go.

Neil.

Tue Oct 14, 2008 10:07 pm

foodeater wrote: Pure ABA swaps have been done but they require the decklid to be raised or modified at both 15˚ and 50˚, because like you said it just doesnt fit otherwise. Its not too big of a deal if it doesnt have the bed in the back or its not a westy, but even if it is you can work around it, by raising the rear seat to match the height of the raised bed/decklid area. In a westy you might also have to cut down the rear cabinet to make it all fit.

In my Westy, all I did was tub the lid, build a deck around it and use Thermarests + memory foam I already had to make it work.

Not cabinet mod needed.

No need to raise the rear seat. As it turns out, the height I tubbed the engine lid to, is the same as the Z bed stock height. Something I knew before going this route.

Neil.

Tue Oct 14, 2008 11:06 pm

So how thick is the memory foam? do you have any pics of the tubbed lid, and the bed set up? Did you do away with the rear pad all together? what I was saying assumed that you would keep the stock rear pad. A few years ago I knew of some one who did the same set up as you 15˚ ABA, but in a syncro, all they did was tub the decklid a couple of inches (1.5"-2") over the intake, then cut down the rear pad in that area so that there was a cut out for the pad to fit around the tub. I didnt think it would work in a 2WD though.

Wed Oct 15, 2008 8:42 am

Cool. The intake interfering with the engine lid I could see being a probable issue with the ABA at 50deg mounting. Is the "extra" 16MM block height (relative to an older counterflow 8V) an issue with that mounting position or is that a non-issue?

I've got an Audi 3A "bubble block" 2.0L to rebuild over the winter for my Scirocco, went that route so I can use the solid-lifter JH head and still not have to mess with the downpipe. Same bore & stroke as the ABA, same block height as the 1.8L .. stealth motor. :twisted:

Wed Oct 15, 2008 9:10 am

The ABA with an older head will fit under the decklid with no mods at 50˚.

Wed Oct 15, 2008 9:39 am

foodeater wrote: So how thick is the memory foam? do you have any pics of the tubbed lid, and the bed set up? Did you do away with the rear pad all together? ..... A few years ago I knew of some one who did the same set up as you 15˚ ABA, but in a syncro, all they did was tub the decklid a couple of inches (1.5"-2") over the intake, then cut down the rear pad in that area so that there was a cut out for the pad to fit around the tub. I didnt think it would work in a 2WD though.

Interesting. Is there something about a Syncro drivetrain that allows the engine to be lower to the deck than what I ended up with?

If I had lowered the arse end of the drive train any more, the shift linkage would get stiffer. (something to use as a gauge btw) For this engine install, I *think* having the lump 3-4" above the deck is normal. (bearing in mind that I kept the stock insulation on the lid):

One other point. One should consider whatever amount of heat is generated and up against the underside of the lid. I couldn't feel any great amount of heat, but this may vary. FWIW, I used chain link fence parts to hold the insualtion in place. You can see one piece is bent. Easy to do. I also welded a ledges on the tub portion for these pieces to brace up against.

The foam is about 1.25" thick. I use two. The thermarests are about 1-1.5" and "adjustable" in that you can blow more/less air in them. I used a "regular" and "wide" "BaseCamp" models. They just about fill up the space. (maybe 2" too narrow?)

This setup feels about the same as what I had. The firmness of the Thermarests makes a big difference. It seems to work fine though. The nice thing about this setup is that if someone needed the upper bunk, I could spare one of the thermarests.

I scored an extra WEsty pad long before the project. At first I used 2 Westy foam pads. Kind of a PITA and takes up more room IMO.

The wood frame I built (and no carpentry is not a strong suit! ;) ) is handy in that I can store stuff. I hinged the back lid and the side lid may be hinged someday.

The real need at this point is to make a new dipstick so I can check it at the license plate door.

Here's pics of the lid

Installed:

Wed Oct 15, 2008 9:40 am

foodeater wrote: The ABA with an older head will fit under the decklid with no mods at 50˚.

Older head?

Which head?

Neil.

Wed Oct 15, 2008 11:27 am

Vanagon Nut wrote: foodeater wrote: The ABA with an older head will fit under the decklid with no mods at 50˚.

Older head?

Which head?

Neil.
1.8 CIS

Wed Oct 15, 2008 11:38 am

Bill W wrote: Vanagon Nut wrote: foodeater wrote: The ABA with an older head will fit under the decklid with no mods at 50˚.

Older head?

Which head?

Neil.
1.8 CIS

Ah. Thanks!

And likely a 1.8 with Digifant too?

Neil.

Wed Oct 15, 2008 2:52 pm

I don't know. I'd rather have no brain.

Wed Oct 15, 2008 2:57 pm

Bill W wrote: I don't know. I'd rather have no brain.

Right. I recall now :)

Hey where's the post of "how to" swap to CIS (E) ?

Did I miss it?

(Just giving ya a hard time! ;) )

Neil.

Wed Oct 15, 2008 3:16 pm

Making the dizzy is the only trick.

Wed Oct 15, 2008 3:23 pm

Ah ok.

Was just doing some reading online about CIS.

Not likely I'll do it .... possibly though if I ever make use of the extra 50* holes KEP drilled in my adapter plate.

Wed Oct 15, 2008 5:42 pm

Thanks everyone. I have a lot more research to do, it seems.