TheSamba.com :: View topic

Fri Oct 17, 2008 9:40 am

Our original description is/was “technical enhancement to 25, 36 and 40hp air-cooled VW engines utilizing period correct accessories, parts, and techniques.”

Whilst it’s quite a specific description, most of you will have your own ideas of what to include and what to exclude in a definitive description.

Without cutting across other Forum interest on The Samba, the forum is open for your opinions on the subject.

Just to set the ball rolling…do we need to add the 1500/1600 single port engines to the definition?

Fri Oct 17, 2008 10:03 am

Sounds good to me.

I assume Judson and Okrasa info will be here.

Fri Oct 17, 2008 10:10 am

I would say 1500cc yes as there were definitely various 1500cc kits.

1600cc I would guess no.

Wed Oct 22, 2008 10:09 pm

What about period-correct performance mods that aren't engine related? Suspension, brakes, wheels and tires, etc.?

Wed Oct 22, 2008 10:51 pm

That sounds ok to me.

I'd say no on wheels and tires since we have a wheel and tires section, unless it's something specific related to other vintage performance modifications. More input welcome on that.

Sun Oct 26, 2008 2:29 pm

I finally finished going through all the Vintage Speed posts now that they have been consolidated and it raised a question. Is "Vintage Speed" only about modifications you can do with vintage components, or is Vintage Speed about creating high performance vintage VW engines, be they old school or new?

I know I have a bias being involved with the 36hp Challenge, but I hope for clarification. Everything in the new Forum section relates to the Challenge participants, vintage superchargers, carb set-ups, etc, but information on new technology applied to our older VW motors is not included. I suspect it may seem sacreligious to many and understand if new tech for old motors is never included!

In the 36hp Challenge we offer a "New Age" class and to date, interest and participation in it has equalled our Stone Stock category. The New Age was offered due to difficulty and costs involved in finding the vintage pieces and unfortunately particpants in the Dual Carb and vintage(yes, we differentiate!)Supercharger categories are still few and far between, even though the original records for those two classes from the early sixties have never been broken. Another advantage to New Age technology is the systems are created by the racers themselves with their own craft and skills(they call that hot rodding)since "kits" using these systems were never sold "in the day". As one racer always reminds me, his engine is "built, not bought!" meaning he has created his own intake system with information he has sought out in numerous "different" forums including the 36hp Drag Racing Forum.

Is it possible to find somewhere in the new Vintage Speed Forum for information on turbos and header systems as applied "only to 25,36 and 40hp motors" without offending true traditionalists? This would help by keeping "ALL" information regarding these vintage motors in one easy to locate forum. All the information on cranks, p&c's, coolers and just general 36hp components applies to both areas of interest with the only discernable difference being in the intake and exhaust areas.

Thanx for considering this option.

Burly Burlile

Mon Oct 27, 2008 1:29 am

Hi Burly,

I expected this question to be raised quite quickly. I as I said in the opening post:
Quote: Whilst it’s quite a specific description, most of you will have your own ideas of what to include and what to exclude in a definitive description.

Without cutting across other Forum interest on The Samba, the forum is open for your opinions on the subject.

We’re not here to impose our definition on the subject but to allow discussion and perhaps come up with a better one.

Personally, on the substance of your post I think it would not be right to exclude “progressive refinements” as that was always VWs take on improving their vehicles…even if they did oppose any outside tinkering with their product.

Without taking away from the “Performance/Engines/Racing” forum I would say we should allow “New Age Refinement” on 25,36 & 40hp engines.

…but let’s hear from others.

Mon Oct 27, 2008 3:37 pm

This forum is great, I have searched the internet for years trying to find as much as possible about early VW race history and have been fairly successful. I’m one of the old timers so I have lived and raced VW’s from the late ‘50s – on. Presently I’m racing in the 36hp Challenge classes with 100% old vintage parts. I have raced the Super Stock Single class, the Dual Carb class, and presently the New Age class. The New Age class brings VW hot rodding to a new level in the blending of the old parts and their shortcomings with turbos and new technology to build a package that runs really well & lives. I’m a retired competitive VW engine builder who also likes to drive a nice crisp sounding and running Okrasa 36hp on a nice summer day.
Let’s keep the “New Age Refinement”.

Here is a picture of the engine with Vintage Speed with a little New Age Refinement thrown in.

BvilleTom

Wed Oct 29, 2008 2:21 pm

EverettB wrote: I would say 1500cc yes as there were definitely various 1500cc kits.

1600cc I would guess no.

i would agree if it were not that i really want to know more about all the vintage speed kits off type3's. a lot off this has been started in the 50's, but there has been made a lot off pioneerwork in the 60's as well. i have to think off the okrasa engine in the mach1 in 64, but that was 1200, but at the same time there were dual carbed 1500 S engines with 55hp... so i hope my post about type3 engine kits will have it's place here in this section as well. and i do hope it can indeed be limited to the early improvements that were made in the 60's.

Wed Oct 29, 2008 10:40 pm

I would accept vintage speed related to Type 3s as well.

Wed Oct 29, 2008 11:53 pm

EverettB wrote: I would accept vintage speed related to Type 3s as well.

very cool! like i said before, there is so little known, compared to type1, and this forum would be the perfect place to gather all that info.

Thu May 03, 2018 2:00 pm

Ok I've got a question are straight cut gears allowed ..in a" vintage speed engine" the reason I ask is because I see a lot of guys say that there engine is a vintage engine from performance parts from the past but I notice most of them run straight cut gears those weren't available in the 50/60s ...im asking because I'm planing on building a 40hp okrasa and seeing what I could use ....

Thu May 03, 2018 8:18 pm

Jerry, in the VW Challenge, a competition to see how fast you can make 36hp engines (and later Big Block 40hp and newer engines) go only requires stock cam gears on Stone Stock 36hp engines used for competition (SS36 category). All other engines competing in the VW Challenge can run straight-cut gears without penalty.

It may be of interest that the two most powerful 36hp based high performance engines, Darrell Vittones turbocharged 25hp and Whitey Worshams dual Weber 48 carbed 36hp engines DO NOT run straight cut cam gears !

One of the main reasons most folks run straight cut gears is the whine, much like that of a supercharger.

Hopefully other folks building vintage style engines will chime in with their opinions but the above is how we consider your question in VW Challenge top speed land speed racing.

I hope this is helpful...................

Burly

Fri May 04, 2018 10:46 am

36hplandspeedracer wrote: Jerry, in the VW Challenge, a competition to see how fast you can make 36hp engines (and later Big Block 40hp and newer engines) go only requires stock cam gears on Stone Stock 36hp engines used for competition (SS36 category). All other engines competing in the VW Challenge can run straight-cut gears without penalty.

It may be of interest that the two most powerful 36hp based high performance engines, Darrell Vittones turbocharged 25hp and Whitey Worshams dual Weber 48 carbed 36hp engines DO NOT run straight cut cam gears !

One of the main reasons most folks run straight cut gears is the whine, much like that of a supercharger.

Hopefully other folks building vintage style engines will chime in with their opinions but the above is how we consider your question in VW Challenge top speed land speed racing.

I hope this is helpful...................

Burly

I was just looking for information it's just I got this type 2 1959 bastard first gen case 36hp/40hp and I'm gonna build an okrasa out of it and I wanna use parts from the time "vintage speed" so it looks like I'll use the oem gears .. but was confused about the gears because like I said I see a lot of guys say there engines are vintage speed engines but they seem to have straight cut gears so there not a true vintage speed engine from the era " pre 65" ...im not planing on racing I just wanna build a true vintage speed high performance 1602cc engine ...thank you for your input ...