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Wed Oct 22, 2008 6:18 am

Just a heads up. I bought part# 21-6060 which is supposed to be .060 shims for a 1600cc. When I got home and opened the package the shims were too big for the heads. The shims measured 89mm inside and 94mm out. I'm new to VW's but isnt that the 2000cc+ engines? Anyways just a headsup, it appears there is some mispackaging taking place at Empi.

Wed Oct 22, 2008 7:04 am

f4stunter wrote: it appears there is some mispackaging taking place at Empi.

No surprise there, unfortunately for you.
Not my phrase, but it applies just the same:

Every
Mistake
Passes
Inspection

Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:06 am

f4stunter wrote: Just a heads up. I bought part# 21-6060 which is supposed to be .060 shims for a 1600cc. When I got home and opened the package the shims were too big for the heads.

21-6060 is .060" CYLINDER shims, they will not fit or work inbetween the cylinder and head. Put them under the cylinders where they seat on the case.

You need 21-5009 for inbetween the cylinder & head.

Personally I'd use what you have under the cylinders, just measure them and see how much difference there is in thickness first, that's a real EMPI trait.

Wed Oct 22, 2008 9:00 am

EMPI sucks fanny.

Wed Oct 22, 2008 7:20 pm

The EMPI shims I bought for my 94 cylinders had the four stud indentations cut "equal distance" apart, instead of the proper offset...so I had to cut them with tinsnips to make them fit. EMPI parts always seem to require modification...

Wed Oct 22, 2008 7:23 pm

neil68 wrote: EMPI parts always seem to require modification...
That's because they're CUSTOM.

I had Rimco make a set of .057" shims and they measured exactly .057" and they fit.

Wed Oct 22, 2008 7:40 pm

Hey Glenn,

That was my 600th post...I'm only 31,000+ behind you :wink:

Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:11 pm

neil68 wrote: Hey Glenn,

That was my 600th post...I'm only 31,000+ behind you :wink:

But he's probably got 30 years on you... :shock:

Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:37 pm

Man, I must of got the only EMPI shims on the planet that were correct! I just put a set of .020 shims under my 90.5 cyls for my 1776, and they were offset properly fitting the studs/cylinders perfect, and were each .020 thick.

Wed Oct 22, 2008 9:16 pm

gkeeton@zbzoom.net wrote: Man, I must of got the only EMPI shims on the planet that were correct! I just put a set of .020 shims under my 90.5 cyls for my 1776, and they were offset properly fitting the studs/cylinders perfect, and were each .020 thick.

My previous 90.5 mm EMPI shims were correctly spaced for the stock head stud pattern. However, when I rebuilt my 2017 to a 2332 cc, the 94 mm EMPI shims had the head stud indents spaced equally...they must have found that it was less expensive to make them this way :wink:

Wed Oct 22, 2008 9:39 pm

neil68 wrote: My previous 90.5 mm EMPI shims were correctly spaced for the stock head stud pattern. However, when I rebuilt my 2017 to a 2332 cc, the 94 mm EMPI shims had the head stud indents spaced equally...they must have found that it was less expensive to make them this way :wink:

I have looked at some where the small relief cuts for the studs are equally spaced, but the cuts are slightly larger, so that the spacer can be put on either way. I don't know exactly how cylinder shims are made, so it may be less expensive to make this way. I think EMPI started making them this way for the simple reason that they got tired of people calling them saying that their shims weren't cut right because they weren't bright enough to rotate the shim 90 degrees to realize they were offset.

Wed Oct 22, 2008 10:00 pm

Yeah, they would rather do something stupid like equally space them, rather than include a little instuction sheet that sez.. hey doofus, check the pattern.

Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:42 pm

I just got finished installing some empi shims and had to clearance each cut out to make them fit right. No big deal with a bench grinder. And I tried them every which way..........just did not fit...8mm studs too!!

Thu Oct 23, 2008 5:15 am

Well at least all of yours fit the hole with little or no modification. Mine are simply the wrong size. Its not a huge ordeal as I will just call royrogers where I got them from and have them ship me the right parts, but its just anoying that I spent just under $400 to get everything I still needed so I could get this thing back together and open the package and there wrong. A constant mistake such as this would cost any company possibly thousands of dollars. After reading about EMPI on these forums till I just didnt care anymore, I have to ask how are they still in business?

Thu Oct 23, 2008 8:29 am

f4stunter wrote: ......
I have to ask how are they still in business?

as long as there are broke-ass VW owners out there, EMPI will stay in business... hey, i've been on that boat several times in my lifetime :cry:

Thu Oct 23, 2008 8:34 am

f4stunter wrote: Well at least all of yours fit the hole with little or no modification. Mine are simply the wrong size. Its not a huge ordeal as I will just call royrogers where I got them from and have them ship me the right parts, but its just anoying that I spent just under $400 to get everything I still needed so I could get this thing back together and open the package and there wrong. A constant mistake such as this would cost any company possibly thousands of dollars. After reading about EMPI on these forums till I just didnt care anymore, I have to ask how are they still in business?

did you read RIS's reply? As crappy as EMPI is, it may not be their mistake.

Thu Oct 23, 2008 9:24 am

bugninva wrote: did you read RIS's reply? As crappy as EMPI is, it may not be their mistake.
True, but if you automatically blame EMPI for the mistake, you will be correct 98% of the time.

Scott Novak

Thu Oct 23, 2008 11:52 am

Actually, I some how missed his post in reading the thread. So the reason I got the shims was I bought 2 remanned heads and one had been flycut flush and the other still had the lip. My partshouse should have knew what they were selling me but as usual I have to know everything for them. Therefore I dont think I can place them under the cylinders as I would still have a pretty good difference in compression ratio on that side, right? Thanks for pointing that out to me though.

Thu Oct 23, 2008 12:01 pm

f4stunter wrote: Actually, I some how missed his post in reading the thread. So the reason I got the shims was I bought 2 remanned heads and one had been flycut flush and the other still had the lip. My partshouse should have knew what they were selling me but as usual I have to know everything for them. Therefore I dont think I can place them under the cylinders as I would still have a pretty good difference in compression ratio on that side, right? Thanks for pointing that out to me though.

Cylinder shims are for correcting deck height issues and setting compression ratios.
You really need to cc the heads and determine if they are the same.
If not you need to correct that issue.
Better to have the head with the step machined to match the flush cut head if the cc's are not the same.

If you have to know everything for your parts supplier it would be obvious a cylinder shim doesn't go in the head.

Thu Oct 23, 2008 12:54 pm

I meant parts suppliers in general. First bug Ive ever owned or worked on so I didnt know they made shims to go below the jug. I knew about the ones for the head. Cylinder bolts up to it, so therefore "Cylinder shims". I pointed to my shop "RoyRogers" what I was looking for and they brought me something different. Anyways the more I thought about it, it would push the head away from the piston that much in essence performing what I needed right? And I realize they may not be 100% spot on but Im trying to get this stocker put together before it gets to cold here so I have something to drive through the winter instead of my bikes. Im not trying to build a performance engine just yet, just something that is pretty dependable. The PO put it together with 1641 kit and broke one of the studs off and left one loose on the left side of the motor. This of course led to damaged head where the cylinder seats. Knowone in my area machines VW stuff. Flycut tools are expensive. Head exchange seemed the best/fastest route but like I said the exchanges are flycut differently.