TheSamba.com :: View topic - Type 3 dizzy characteristics and manifold mounting ontype 1

Thu Oct 23, 2008 12:21 pm

Hello, Im going to run type 3 short manifolds and use the 30 pict 1 carbs. My question is, ...I have a short shaft 205m dizzy. Will this dizzy still function correctly if I hook up the vacuum line to both of the ports on the 30 pict 1 carbs? Or will the signal the carbs produce be weaker? If it is a weaker vac signal, then is the spring inside the type 3 dizzy weaker also?
Next question is, will I be able to mount the short type 3 manifolds on my 1600dp and have the carburators bolt up or will the carbs hit the fan shroud? I know type 3 does not have the huge fan shroud. Im hoping I dont have to convert to one of those perfectly round on top fan shrouds cause I dont have one. I dont know if you can even get those with the offset oil cooler.

Thu Oct 23, 2008 4:39 pm

30 pict 1 WILL NOT mount up to type 3 manifolds, nor work in conjunction w/ each other, trust me, been there done it, won't do it again.

32 PDSIT was the stock size, 20 is to small, 31 is too small, 34 is a giant in comparison

Thu Oct 23, 2008 6:33 pm

Euro 67 wrote: 30 pict 1 WILL NOT mount up to type 3 manifolds, nor work in conjunction w/ each other, trust me, been there done it, won't do it again.

32 PDSIT was the stock size, 20 is to small, 31 is too small, 34 is a giant in comparison

with the right machinist you could make adapters, though why you would go through all that when you could just use the stock 32pdsit's is beyond me.

Thu Oct 23, 2008 10:22 pm

well screw me royally lmao. Um well I didnt realize this wouldnt work. Thought there was only 2 different sizes. I just paid 45 bucks for a set of type 3 manifolds. Not sure what to do now. I have 2 30 pict 1s ready to go. Not sure of the availability on 32s.....will have to check.

Thu Oct 23, 2008 10:36 pm

Euro 67 wrote: 30 pict 1 WILL NOT mount up to type 3 manifolds, nor work in conjunction w/ each other, trust me, been there done it, won't do it again.

32 PDSIT was the stock size, 20 is to small, 31 is too small, 34 is a giant in comparison care to shed some light on why they dont work. Of course I dont understand how the 32s work either, especially with vacuum advance. I'll bet pdsit means something too. I just love the 30 pict 1 carb I guess. I threw it on the bus wth an adapter and got it running great. Figured Id try dual carbs with it. 32 made for the decreased air flow with only 2 cylinders?

Thu Oct 23, 2008 11:15 pm

Have you put a 30 pict at each side and worked out how a linkage will work them together?

the type 3 manifolds are too short and the type 3 linkage wonnt work on the upright engine.

Thu Oct 23, 2008 11:38 pm

thats why they wont work?.......I am dam good at desiging stuff. If thats all that matters is linkage, then it will work. But will the carbs themselves work.....already got one no but .........is that no they wont bolt up or no they wont run right after every mechanical problem is fixed. 32pdsits seem to still be available. But everyones right that 30 pict 1s are dam simple to work on. of course the issue of bolt on to the now 32 manifolds still exists. Assuming the other guy never got them to bolt on, and gave up from there........I guess I will have to consider the 32s if the 30 pict 1s will not function as dual carbs themselves if they did bolt on. So yeah I see what you are saying when 32s bolt right on. Just dont know how simple they are to use.

Fri Oct 24, 2008 1:30 am

quartermilecamel wrote: thats why they wont work?.......I am dam good at desiging stuff. If thats all that matters is linkage, then it will work. But will the carbs themselves work.....already got one no but .........is that no they wont bolt up or no they wont run right after every mechanical problem is fixed. 32pdsits seem to still be available. But everyones right that 30 pict 1s are dam simple to work on. of course the issue of bolt on to the now 32 manifolds still exists. Assuming the other guy never got them to bolt on, and gave up from there........I guess I will have to consider the 32s if the 30 pict 1s will not function as dual carbs themselves if they did bolt on. So yeah I see what you are saying when 32s bolt right on. Just dont know how simple they are to use.

this is going to be rather long winded but bear with me.

first of all, theres nothing to say that without the proper fab work, that your idea WILL NOT work. it WOULD work, but whats the point?

the 32pdsit carbs (that came stock on t3's for a number of years) are solex and damn simple to work on, same as the 30 pict 1's. the same can be said for the weber 34 ICT's, 34 dellortos, etc. these are simple small carbs.

now, you have an upright engine. reasons why using t3 parts is not advisable:

the manifolds are physically too short for normal linkage to work. also, you might have clearance issues with the carbs and the fan shroud. while these issues can be worked around, why bother? find someone with proper t1 manifolds and trade. or go to a local junk yard and see whats available. another point on manifolds is that the 32 pdsits came jetted smaller for the short manifolds-- running the 32's on taller manifolds COULD require you to bump the jets up. people who run 34 ICT's have the same problem when putting them on t3's-- they are initially jetted for taller manifolds in T1's, and we often have to bring the jets down a size for them to work properly.

the carbs themselves are a good size, but again, linkage would be an issue. stock t3's used a push pull style linkage with ball/orifice ends, similar but not the same as heim joints. this is completely at odds with the "normal" up/down linkage available for t1 engines.

If I were you, I'd sell that stuff and find a nice pair of weber 34 ICT's. they are simple, return decent mileage, and will bolt right up to t1 dual port dual carb manifolds for that application. you also have a few options with linkage with those carbs. you'll save a lot of time and money doing it that way.

Fri Oct 24, 2008 2:08 am

Gene Berg used to sell a complete setup with tall intake manifolds for dual 32PDSITs complete with linkage for use with Type 1 engines.

But since that time there have been a lot of other available carb sets that work as well or better.

It's just way too much effort to get an oddball set of carbs to work. Unless a lot of other people are using the same setup, you basically have no support group to draw experience from

So unless this was some fabulous carb that you wanted to adapt to work with a VW, why would you want to bother spending your time adapting an average carb?

Scott Novak

Fri Oct 24, 2008 12:41 pm

Well the plus side of using 30 pict 1 carbs or the 32 pdsit carbs was the price. I already have them. Finding webbers kadrons or other stuff I have noticed, is more expensive....but havent seen low cost alternatives yet. I bought my 30 pict 1 for 20 bucks, and got it running great. I found a dual carb set up complete for 150 but thats still 150 bucks. Might eventually have to go to that anyway but right now I cant even remotely afford that. I dont have the 32 carbs right now anyway, I would have to purchase those.

Fri Oct 24, 2008 6:59 pm

quartermilecamel wrote: Euro 67 wrote: 30 pict 1 WILL NOT mount up to type 3 manifolds, nor work in conjunction w/ each other, trust me, been there done it, won't do it again.

32 PDSIT was the stock size, 20 is to small, 31 is too small, 34 is a giant in comparison care to shed some light on why they dont work. Of course I dont understand how the 32s work either, especially with vacuum advance. I'll bet pdsit means something too. I just love the 30 pict 1 carb I guess. I threw it on the bus wth an adapter and got it running great. Figured Id try dual carbs with it. 32 made for the decreased air flow with only 2 cylinders?

Here I go...........

30 Pict 1's were originally designed to be a nice single carb, they don't have a power jet in em like the late Pict 2 & 3. Trying to make adapter plates for these is a bitch, been there done it, never again either.
They are a bitch to set up right, will never run right, There are only one set of stock carbs that work well paired up to each other and they are 28 PCI carbs, they only came on Okrasa engines, and I don't think they were necessarily stock. IMHO, don't attempt it, It isn't worth the money, the time, or the effort, i would save up for the next swap meet, and find some cheap used weber's there, those 32 PDSITs are soon to become few and far between.

Fri Oct 24, 2008 10:10 pm

28 PCIs are stock for 36hp engines.

Fri Oct 24, 2008 10:47 pm

Ah ha well that pretty much foils that plan. Ok so thats the differenc, the power valve. I have heard of that. Have no clue what that does yet. Wow funny kinda too....I was so stoked to try the 30. What are the chances I will run across the perfect set of carbs on my door step? Now I gotta go figure out whats a power valve. How bout I just go bolt on a c ouple of power valves....just kidding.

Sat Oct 25, 2008 12:15 am

quartermilecamel wrote: Ah ha well that pretty much foils that plan. Ok so thats the differenc, the power valve. I have heard of that. Have no clue what that does yet. Wow funny kinda too....I was so stoked to try the 30. What are the chances I will run across the perfect set of carbs on my door step? Now I gotta go figure out whats a power valve. How bout I just go bolt on a c ouple of power valves....just kidding.

He did not say valve (maybe your joking :? ) the power jet I think he is referring to is the accelerator jet, add a squirt of extra fuel to help not flatspot on accelerating, the early carbs just have a dribble hole for this.

If you want to start with a kit with brand new unworn carbs, checked and jetted for your engine with great customer service go here

http://www.aircooled.net/new-bin/viewproductdetail.php?keyword2=FSK0001&cartid=1024200890774153

Sat Oct 25, 2008 2:45 am

krusher wrote: quartermilecamel wrote: Ah ha well that pretty much foils that plan. Ok so thats the differenc, the power valve. I have heard of that. Have no clue what that does yet. Wow funny kinda too....I was so stoked to try the 30. What are the chances I will run across the perfect set of carbs on my door step? Now I gotta go figure out whats a power valve. How bout I just go bolt on a c ouple of power valves....just kidding.

He did not say valve (maybe your joking :? ) the power jet I think he is referring to is the accelerator jet, add a squirt of extra fuel to help not flatspot on accelerating, the early carbs just have a dribble hole for this.

If you want to start with a kit with brand new unworn carbs, checked and jetted for your engine with great customer service go here

http://www.aircooled.net/new-bin/viewproductdetail.php?keyword2=FSK0001&cartid=1024200890774153

the problem is he has no money. he's stated that he wants to use the 30 pic 1's because he can find them cheap.

sorry but dual carbs are expensive. fact of life.